NLP Strategies & Strategy Pipelines - NLP Training Chat

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Strategy Pipelines

IRC Chat Log, February 12, 1998

JonathanWhere I'd like to start off is by mentioning a couple of things. We're going to be moving fast today, in order to cover a lot of material. During certain times I'm going to be asking you to elicit certain things inside your mind. I want people to have paper available on the side to write things down, and elicit those things for yourselves, on paper. There will be times for open chat and open questions and other times for presentation. Is this cool?
JonathanIf we spent time eliciting a LOT of strategies from each person here we'd be here a LONG time...
OllieDoes it have to be paper? Or could I just open an editor window?
JonathanSure you choose. Someone else commented to me today that Bandler seems to be calling sequential strategy elicitation a bit obsolete now. That's not a direct quote, but someone's own perception of something Richard was saying.
JonathanWell, yes & no, in my view. One strategy at a time, to take on someone else's strategy for something... well, at best that's modeling, so it isn't obsolete! Bandler wants, in my view, to go beyond what he's ever done before... these are the principles behind DHE(tm) - Design Human Engineering -- i.e., get past what isn't working, stop defining everything in relation to where you've been and design in a whole new set of UNIQUE responses. Based on nothing before.. i.e., totally innovative. So out of strategy elicitation comes the ability to combine strategies in ways they've never been combined before, creating new classes and kinds of behaviors for yourself in the future! Are you with me so far? (y/n)
Kiwa, Questor y
JonathanSO! Taking that a step further, I'd say, what If I didn't think I was creative, so, I found my own creativity strategy, and then, found someone else's creativity strategy from someone who I thought WAS/IS creative? What if I tried it on and found myself being more creative? Well, that's neato-whizbang-cool & all that, but that's one-dimensional change. What if I didn't think I was a good problem solver so I modeled someone else's problem solving strategy, and found it to work better? Again, uni-dimensional. But... what if... I wanted to be REALLY creative about solving problems... so what if I took the new problem-solving strategy and RAN IT THROUGH my new creativity strategy? How differently would I think about the problem-solving strategy then? Could/would it change or Mutate into something much more interesting? OR, what if I took my new creativity strategy and RAN IT THROUGH my new problem-solving strategy? Would I end up with an installed new set of creative options in any future problems that might arise? I dunno! What do you think? (chat time!)
KiwaI think it sounds extremely interesting, but could we please have an example?
QuestorSo you're talking about using strategies to create new strategies?
JonathanAnd since you raised your hand Kiwa... Can I ask you what you do, specifically, when you decide to pursue something without hesitation?
Kiwayou want my creativity strategy?
JonathanWhat's the first thing that happens?
KiwaI see pictures hear myself saying WOW, I feel extremely good, but it builds up until I simply HAVE to do it
JonathanAnd your test is a Kino Threshold? Like, does it stop, and you know it would go much further if you went for it?
KiwaI also run it through a checklist to see if it is at all possible to do. Flying to the moon may excite me, but...
JonathanOK... How do you experience the checklist?
KiwaI try out different 'movies' with consequences. With the movies are stored feelings.
Jonathanmovies with sounds?
Kiwathe sound is mostly myself talking
JonathanThat's right... so the strategy is recursive, it applies equally well at multiple levels of detail.
JonathanEach test is a stopping point to see if the strategy has to be applied at lower levels... Excellent! We got a live one, folks! ALRIGHT, moving on... Shall I choose one? Or would you like to select another unrelated strategy?
Kiwahow about learning strategy?
JonathanYou want to combine learning with go-for-it? I thought you already did that ;)
Kiwamaybe you have a better idea
JonathanMaybe. How do you know if something tastes REALLY good, like... Strawberries! I mean, do you see it first? Or do you like to taste new things no matter how they look? Is there a voice that goes, "hmmm! that could be tasty!" How do you know if something tastes REALLY GOOD!?
Kiwasomething that tastes really good? I see it and taste it in my mouth
JonathanOK, so you have to see it first? Is there a voice that says "yeah" or "no way that's going in my mouth" 1st? OK, so you have to see it first? Is there a voice that says "yeah" or "no way that's going in my mouth" 1st?
Kiwayes, I see it first, then taste it virtually
JonathanTaste it virtually(!), how cool -- and after you taste it virtually, then what?
Kiwamy mouth is watering!
JonathanDo you know? or is there a voice or feeling at that point? hehhe KEWL
Kiwathat is a feeling. (like right now)
JonathanOK then.
Stygianfor me there is a just knowing that it is going to taste good
JonathanNow lets take your 1st strategy for going for something... where you... see something you wanna do, hear the sounds of the movie... then, feels INCREASINGLY good about it... and... fire it (the strategy) through the process of... Seeing you run the process over & over... tasting how amazing the results will be afterwards... and getting all the juices flowing to make it happen and feel incredible about it!
KiwaI don't know it made it better, but my mouth is still watering
JonathanBecause its not what you've not done that interests us here, but how can we teach the brain to make new creative possibilities for what you haven't yet discovered... about how good it can all feel... when things have already been set in motion! Now. Lets try the reverse, and test it out. We KNOW that this process doesn't necessarily always improve things, that's why we test them out! Lets take the "how do I know if something's going to taste amazing" strategy, (Seeing, Tasting, Feeling your mouth watering...)
KiwaI absolutely feel very excited about my tasting strategy right now!
Jonathanhehheh, we're done! OK as a recap, so far, we elicited 2 strategies, which involved sequences of different sensory systems, and we ran one THROUGH the other...!

JonathanWhat else could something like this be USED for? Lets hear some ideas out here in channel! Everyone following so far? (y/n) Or, ask questions now about what you watched us do
Stygian, Kiwa, disguise Y
JonathanGet involved folks, this isn't a lecture the whole time ;)
OllieIs there a definite aim in combining two particular strategies in this way?
JonathanWhat do you think you can get out of this skill/tool?
OllieOr is it just a case of try it and see what happens?
JonathanThere are MANY aims ;) Yes, Ollie, trying it out... amplify your effectiveness by combining new behaviors
Kiwamaybe we're learning to use several strategies at one time
Jonathanyes, maybe... or learning how to chunk automatically ;)
StygianCombining can be useful for amplifying states & for more effectiveness of instillation
Kiwalets try another example (someone elses)
JonathanYes lets - Stygian -- what's your strategy for Mischief?
StygianI'm hoping what he said pertains to the topic because he is a little confused in the discussion
JonathanYes Styg it is certainly pertinent. Do you want to pursue a couple of answers to your confusion state?
JonathanOK. Stygian, what is your strategy for wanting to be mischievous? By that, I mean, what happens in your experience for you to go from a neutral state, into a Mischievous state!
StygianI try to remember all the mischievous feelings I have and try to grow them. I use thoughts, pictures, memories, etc.
JonathanBut something kicks it off, right? What kind of stimuli might initiate the process? Ah, ok. So its not in relation to any outside source, you just, decide internally that you wanna have a little fun? Randomly?
StygianIt depends on an outside source
JonathanOh, ok, like, what (don't need to tell me details, just... is it a voice? music? images of faces or what?)
StygianFor certain situations I may want to feel mischievous, and at other times I just do it because something causes me to feel that way
JonathanWhen you decide you want to feel mischievous, is it because you've heard laughter in your head that might result when you feel that way, or, is it that you've run thru movies of the outcomes of certain choices...? Choose one good memory in particular, and identify your internal process, in order.
StygianHmm neither
JonathanThis isn't necessarily easy, and, it isn't necessarily hard. Ok, then what?
StygianIt is more like a spark going off
Jonathanand its right in front of you, eh? Do you hear and/or see the spark? do you physically shift when it happens? These questions are designed to elicit right & wrong responses so we can know what he's actually doing. They may match, they may not!
StygianThe spark is like how it starts, not what I see. It is like fire in the process of starting
JonathanOK. And after the spark, do still pictures get created or do movies start running (i.e. what process occurs)? Also, how do you experience the spark? Auditorally, Visually, or kinesthetically (like electricity!)?
StygianI'm struggling to remember.
JonathanI know I know. This is the process of learning HOW your mind works. And it DOES get easier and easier as you pay attention to your own brain's process!
OllieWhat's your strategy for learning how your mind works? ;)
StygianI don't see hear feel a spark. It is how it starts. It is like suddenly I just feel mischevious (I haven't at the time observed it closely enough to determine why) and if I want to feel that way it grows like fire
KiwaIt sounds like a feeling to me (if I may bud in)
JonathanHe just laid it all out for us! Yes Kiwa I'd agree! K -> V -> A TEST. Feel FREE to bud in! So we now have 1 strategy for deciding to be mischievous. Lets choose another unrelated strategy. Lets see. How do you know, Stygian, when its time to be giving with people? I mean, there are times to look out for yourself, and there are times when you're doing fine, you don't have to be concerned about your needs, and you feel like doing something nice for someone?
StygianI do nice things for people when I feel personally happy and content.
JonathanOK, so you feel personally happy and content, and, then what?
StygianI am generally more unselfish toward friends than to strangers
JonathanSomehow internally that leads to a decision point, like, do you run through possible scenarios of HOW you could help? And does that match an internal thing that goes, "yeah?" I don't know I'm just throwing out possible matches getting him to put things into words that match experience more closely
StygianMy descisions of being selfish or unselfish are things I've pondered on and I usually have to think about each particular instance of whether or not being unselfish would be harmful
KiwaHarmful to whom?
JonathanGood question!
StygianFor instance if I was a doctor and I saved a person's life on the street, but broke their ribs they could sue me
JonathanThat's situational. Go back to the beginning of the situation in your mind.
StygianI am unselfish usually when I feel it serves a general good
JonathanDo you see, hear, or feel something as the 1st element of the experience
StygianLike benefiting a good cause or helping out a friend
JonathanWe're looking for a sequence of internal elements to the experience
StygianIt is always thoughts first
Jonathanthoughts as in verbal memories?
StygianNo, thoughts like I think about whether to be unselfish. (Unless I am in a good mood and I just do it.)
JonathanYeah yeah, but think those thoughts... are they verbal, or visual or both, and in what order? "Think" has an unspecified modality.
StygianI'm not sure. I probably assume visual because I tend to think that way
JonathanOh ok. Probably both, though ;) with a visual lead. But I don't know for sure, unless I'm there watching a lot of signals. OK. So. lets recap this strategy: You run through Visual, Auditory, then you feel happy and content to do something? or is it in reverse, you feel happy and content, then, you can run thru Visual and Auditory to get to a decision point? (one will probably match better ;)
KiwaI 'read' it the other way. He gets a good satisfied feeling first before he visualizes.
StygianIf I am having a good day or am happy I tend to be unselfish. And I my primary rep is visual
JonathanYes, I think Kiwa's right. OK. So Styg... think about the 1st strategy we elicited: Deciding to be mischievous... - KVA - and, then think about your decision to be unselfish strategy
Stygiandoes kino include emotional feeling as well as body feeling?
JonathanYes Styg. Guess what? They're the same - KVA - But the same only in concept because the Kino part of one, will potentially start in one place, then the feeling might grow or move to another place, etc. and the kino part of the other could be very different. And the order (i.e. KVA) is not the most important part of all this... but getting the "qualities" and "sequence" of the changing elements is the most important part! So this may seem complicated in description, but if you TRY THIS OUT: Take your decision strategy for being unselfish: feeling happy & content, in the appropriate way, then leading to a thorough examination of what the consequences could be, into a YES decision... And run the conscious understanding of that strategy through the Deciding to be mischeivous strategy, where some kind of spark initiated the process of that growing feeling about what it would be like to be mischievous! In this case, the Mischievous strategy would be considered META to the unselfishness strategy. So, how does it feel to explore all that Styg?
KiwaSuddenly the unselfishness strategy does not seem to appealing anymore..
Stygianmischief and unselfishness do not seem to relate
JonathanInteresting responses! They're not supposed to, but by combining them in new ways,
OllieI gotta admit something here... I've followed these examples, as far as the elicitation of the strategies goes, and that's fine - I understand that OK... but in both cases, when you get to the bit about "run this strategy through that strategy" I haven't quite followed how you actually do that.
JonathanThank GOODNESS people aren't automatically just getting this! I would've thought myself strangely dense if you did -- it took me a little while too! And now I get an opportunity to explain it to people in a way that already presupposes what you're not yet getting easily!
StygianThis is what you learned from your recent teaching with Bandler, right?
JonathanWell, its something that was re-installed. OK. Lets see now.
OllieI kind of half-followed it with Kiwa - so I thought I'd wait & the 2nd example would make it clearer... But it just made me go "huh?"

JonathanHere's the thing. Strategies are people's internal processes for doing something effective, right?
JonathanAnd by combining two internal processes, we get something totally new and perhaps even more effective to occur internally.
StygianI think trying to invoke mischievousness with unselfishness would create a state of confusion, however mischievousness with selfishness would be more understandable
JonathanConfusion is Wonderful, Stygian, because that's what your brain doesn't yet know how to do! What you already understand is NOT what I'm going for. ;) Confusion, to me, is an indication that I am INTEGRATING SOMETHING NEW! Now, Ollie... back to your point --
StygianIf you link two states that cause confusion it would take time for them (me atleast) to figure out how they integrate
JonathanLets say you get someone to try on a new strategy to learn something in a different way. And they try it on, and they like it, maybe it even feels weird to them, but interesting. Following? So, lets say you elicited their own strategy for handling a problem state, that in their past they hadn't been able to get beyond. If you then took their problem strategy, which hasn't yet been effective for them, and asked them to think about that strategy as a whole, and "pipe it through" the strategy of learning something in a different way... It could be that after they've done that, they change their problem strategy, or change the way they used it.
KiwaThe learning strategy or the creativity strategy would be good for that
JonathanIts not something that necessarily makes perfect sense until you DO it, and find your behavior changing. Yes, Kiwa!
OllieYes, I can see how it would work with something like that...
JonathanThis is a process/principle that relies upon knowledge of how quickly the brain learns how to process things differently! And it can work with ANYTHING!
OllieEssentially you'd be applying a strategy for learning in a new way to a strategy that you wanted to learn in a new way
JonathanAnd, of course, you can try on other peoples strategies and they might not feel very good, so, its like you can become a new behavior generator automatically by combining things that don't seem to relate! And you get to choose how.
OllieSo with Stygian's example, you were getting him to run his being-unselfish strategy in a mischievous way? (by applying his being-mischievous strategy to it) Is that right?
OllieSo is that like developing a new strategy for being mischievously unselfish?
JonathanSure, why not?
OllieOK, I think I see... so far... Could you chunk down a bit?
JonathanSure. Do you want to ask specific questions first?
OllieWell, if you could give a step-by-step example of how to run one strategy on another one... (make up simple strategies if you like, to keep it from getting too tortuous)
Jonathan;) After 100 minutes at high chunk, that would take a LONG time... why don't we save that for another chat time? Also, we don't like people to think about it for too long, if it gets arduous, you're not doing it right ;)
OllieOK - I've gotta use the phone for something else, anyway :) (Hey, I'll probably have worked it out for myself by the next time :))
JonathanI suspect so! I'm going to officially close the chat down in a few moments... does anyone else have any questions? Or ideas for another chat!
OllieTime to pass the learning process over to my subconscious :)
StygianWere those combining states called "Strategy pipelines"? I was thinking Jonathan was going to say something about leading
JonathanYes, because you're running one strategy THRU another -- And if you can do it with 2, you can do it with a LOT more! Type-written, its a little terse as material goes, but in person it falls into place really easily.
OllieWhoa, let me digest the possibility of doing it with 2 first!
JonathanBecause we can point to places on the body once we've elicited kino submodalities, as we lead other people though their own strategy combinations
OllieMy main interest is in using it with myself, really - at the moment, anyway :)
Jonathansounds good.... Well, I'd like to thank everyone for coming; we had a small crowd this time and it was nice to see someone from the UK & someone from Denmark here! We'll do more down the road! Keep your eyes peeled for more ads on a.p.nlp, and if you want to be added to the announcement list, just give me your email address here! Also -- don't forget to let people know (who could benefit) about the April NLP Practitioner Training coming up 4/3 - 4/15 in Tampa FL!
OllieWell... I'd better go, or it'll be too late to make that phone call. Bye, everyone.
JonathanOK! Cya Later!


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