NLP Meta-Programs - Chat Transcript

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Sleight of Mouth
IRC Chat Log, January 15, 1998

MetaPrograms (chat #2)
JonathanAEveryone doing well?
kayy, thank you, and you?
JonathanAin a great state!
kayFlorida. no ice. no snow.
JonathanAa little hyper, perhaps -- did kewl things today
kaytell us?
JonathanAFlorida is a great state too... we have that aquifer thing going for us
kayWhat is an aquifer?
JonathanAwell, I'll talk about the other stuff another time. Just wanted to kinda ease into this... I'd like to get started by talking about how and why we use metaprograms. And we do use them, ALL the time, without knowing about it, and we also have our own metaprograms. Basically, lets start from the basics: The Map is Not the Territory! So our internal representations are different from reality, and we make internal representations based on our sensing of whats happening. Using the 5 senses.
JonathanAAnd we generalize, distort, and delete from information coming in, so as to create these really weird skewed incomplete maps... AND YET... we're always doing the best we can. Well, you hear in traditional psychological theories... "we have complexes over things." a complex is a set of associations... or whatever gobbledygook... but basically we have internal patterns and frameworks within which we understand the world. We look for patterns. Your brain... you're unconscious.. mind... is a pattern-seeker! k? Everyone with me?
JonathanAothers here?
Ollie_Yep - not unconscious yet ;)
JonathanA*grin!* (just synching everyone up here)
kaywhoops.. my unconscious just tried to sneak out...
JonathanA;) alrighty then! ;) So we have these internal frameworks and filters through which we receive, structure, and then feed information. now. One of the ways or methods that NLP'ers have for understanding other people far more effectively, is to learn how to perceive, understand, and provide information back to... other people's metaprograms. And there are a lot of metaprograms to consider! Each one is like a filter. Here are some examples. And as you consider others, I want you to list them here! Introverted vs. Extroverted. Sameness vs Difference.
kaydetail vs. big picture?
JonathanAChunk Size
JonathanAkay -- same as chunk size ;) good point!
Dan_26can we take a step back for a moment and define metaprogram?
kaytowards or away?
JonathanASure Dan, thanks for asking. Meta Program is a general term for people's internal filters/frameworks for understanding their own reality. To gain rapport with others, you look for and learn how other people filter information, and provide information to them using their filtering methodologies (MetaPrograms). Example: Chunk Size! Some people love to talk about the details -- and you can't shut 'em up!
kayoh, click! Shelle Rose Charvet calls them "traits"!
JonathanASome people don't talk a lot, and they just talk in generalities. Kewl
Ollie_Is "towards or away" one? (i.e., pursuance vs. avoidance?)
JonathanAWell, you won't get rapport with a tiny-chunk detail sorter by describing the big picture. Yes Ollie, Towards or AwayFrom is a good pair. Heirarchy of Criteria is another. One MetaProgram is PRIMARY SENSORY SYSTEM! People say "he's so Visual." ;)
Ollie_(Kay suggested it... don't want to take the credit from her)
JonathanAOthers might love to get into talking about "FEELINGS." Like, so can you *see* what I mean? No, I *feel* a little confused by that.
Dan_26safe to say a given metaprogram may differ among different contexts then (?)
JonathanAIntroversion/Extroversion is like Attention to Self/Others. Absolutely, Dan. Sure.
Ollie_logical vs. intuitive?
JonathanAAnother NLP Tenet: Behavior Goes To Context. All behaviors have "some" purpose in "some" settings. So we do change behaviors in different settings, and that's natural. Yes Ollie, that's a good one... and also Convincer Strategy (Channel/Mode). Stress Response (Choice/Feelings/Thinking). Modal Operators!!! I love that one. I think working with Modal Operators is one of the most powerful tools of influence around!
Ollie_Why is it that rep. systems seem to be given more emphasis than other metaprograms?
JonathanABecause its the easiest for people to pick up. ;) ...And then use effectively with a minimum of practice and integration.
Dan_26well, let's discuss that one :)
JonathanALets get a round of responses...
Kay'we pick up the rep systems by using our rep systems...
JonathanAMy preference is always to go for what we don't do well yet, but we can start with the easy one...
Dan_26my experience consciously appears to be limited to modalities, so I'm open for any
Ollie_I've read tons on rep systems, but I don't know how much other people here know about them
JonathanAother opinions?
glen_steri prefer moving from familiar to unfamiliar
Kay'I'm easy... so to speak
Ollie_ISTM the importance of the other metaprograms is under-represented
JonathanAI agree Ollie, I think there's far too little out there. Hmmmm (an idea sparks) big grin
Kay'yea? grinning a big toothy grin
Player...mirrors Jonathan's grin
JonathanAOK well, lets cover the rep systems one briefly and move on to others quick as everyone's comfortable.
Ollie_Don't keep us in suspenders
Kay'Kay' is grinning but she can't type purple {editor's note; purple is an IRC chat artifact of "actions"}
JonathanAPlayer, up for an example with me?
JonathanAOK. Player, mirror my rep-system metaprogs during this conversation -- I'll lead, you pace. K?
JonathanAI was out driving today, heading south on 275 from Tampa to St. Petersburg, and I looked out around the road and I saw the conditions were nasty! Rain everywhere, limited visibility, gray fog, just grossness. I was trying to picture a nice day, and it improved my focus, but I couldn't get the ideal perspective in mind. See here, I dunno, I enjoyed myself anyway.
PlayerI see your predicament. You just didn't see it... If you look for things to enjoy you can usually see them right in front of you
greyhoundI'm not grasping any of what you are trying to get across to me
JonathanA;) grey hang on just a bit we're demonstrating something (rapport first)
Kalleegrey hound:you don't see it?
Ollie_greyhound, I feel you may be approaching it from the wrong angle
Dan_26isn't it amazing how sometimes it seems so easy now to feel with your eyes greyhound?
greyhoundIts just not clicking
JonathanAok so I guess I got into a better state and I found my breathing slowing down a bit as I remembered a really relaxing time... and even though I had a bit of a shoulder cramp it wasn't bad, and I'd just eaten so my gut was happy ;)
greyhoundfeel with my eyes? shiver
JonathanAIt felt nice
Kay'grey Jonathans trying to hold on to a really nice day,
Kay'and it slips out of his hand, all wet
PlayerFeels good to relax
JonathanABut then, I heard a noise behind and to the left, sirens...
greyhoundoh, was it warm and calm outside?
Ollie_tell me more...
JonathanAand the sounds of the rain and the tires and the wipers seemed louder...
Ollie_I'm listening...
JonathanAbut I turned around and instantly I knew, I just heard that voice -- its not you they're after... its the dude in front of you going 90!
Kalleecops they'll never take me alive
greyhoundI was only going 80
JonathanAPlayer was just following along. An obvious Visual-Kinesthetic-Auditory sequence.
Ollie_Yes, it's not often that clear-cut in real life, though
greyhoundI still didn't catch that
JonathanANow. Most folks have a primary sensory representation system, but everyone uses all of them, some better than others. Some will be more visual more often, etc or not.
Ollie_(Although greyhound is pretty clearly primarily kino)
PlayerI can see that
greyhoundits my nose
JonathanAWith regard to decision strategies, for whatever purpose, people will often cycle through 2-3 rep systems in order to get to a decision point. Mind you, that decision point might be one which ends up deciding to investigate further.
Kalleei have x-ray vision, can feel others thoughts and hear an ant walk
JonathanAIt might not be the final decision point. Lets stop for a sec with that issue:
Stygianby cycling you mean mental visualization (and whatever you call it when you think in sound, smell, feeling, etc.)?
JonathanAPeople use particular sequences of rep-systems, in order to make certain decisions. And when the subject matter or decision changes, so can the strategy/order they choose. Not quite Styg... Car dealers often know this.
Kay'so its the sequence that's the meta program
JonathanA1 MetaProgram is "Primary repsystem", another MetaProgram is "Decision strategy rep-system sequence"
Kay'oh. thanks
StygianHow is it then?
JonathanAok here it is... a car dealer might know that in order to buy a car -- to really know I've made a good decision, he might know that I go through a VKA strategy. How would he know? He'd have asked me! What's important to you in a car? "Well, I have to like the way it looks. And its gotta feel right to me, and I don't want to hear any noise on the road. s'gotta be quiet."
greyhoundsmell of new interior
Kalleehow do you know when you have made a good buy?
Stygiangood gas mileage
Ollie_So the first stage of greyhound's strategy for buying a car would be K, right?
JonathanASo we can use the words I used to determine I have a VKA strategy for buying a car!!!
Kay'or.. it can't look stodgy. not uncomfortable... and not noisy... and
JonathanAOllie, we'd want to ask him HOW he understands good gas mileage... RIGHT Kay'!
greyhoundsure, pee on the tires a few times, smell the interior, chase it down the road... sold!
JonathanAWe'd repeat the sequence back to him with NEW details. LOL greyhound
Kalleeget him to drive the car
Ollie_Actually, *smell* of a new interior - do we consider than olfactory, or lump it in with kinesthetic?
JonathanASmell is Olfactory
Kay'gocha.. and grey, your a dog
JonathanAnot lumped in.
greyhoundis lump a K word?
JonathanAThis particular process is VERY well described in Michael Brooks "Instant Rapport;" And I highly recommend that book
Ollie_Oh, I've got that somewhere
Ollie_OK. Olfactory and gustatory are normally left out 'cause it's easier to understand with only 3, right?
JonathanAnot quite Ollie -- but close! VAKOG is the acronym.
Ollie_(and because they're less common?)
JonathanAO & G is normally left out for several reasons. Most people have a primary 3.
greyhoundand E, for ESP (sorry, bad dog)
JonathanAanother reason is a sequence of 3 is typically enough to qualify as a well-formed strategy. --Yes Ollie, I think that'd be correct too.
greyhoundwhen choosing what to have for dinner, would you access Gi? maybe Oi internal
Kay'grey you read my mind.
JonathanASure Grey -- re: Accessing Gi
Kay'can a sequence be something like V A V K V?
JonathanASure, it can be a strategy sequence, but it wouldn't meet NLP's well-formedness conditions. I won't get into that here. You'll get it in the prac training Kay! And others can read up on it in various places if they want to.
Kay'ok! is that a threat? ;-)
greyhoundits really not mind reading, I'm just sensory aware of a few things
JonathanAIs everyone reasonably comfortable with the ideas above?
Kay', Kallee, Dan_26, Ollie_, greyhoundy
JonathanAPeople's primary rep systems are also their most comfortable rep FILTERS!

Internal Vs. External
Ollie_Do you mean, they filter out things which don't match their primary rep systems?
JonathanAYes Ollie that's often what happens -- it'll be like they're completely ignoring you, or they just seem confused! Lets go to internal vs external... Why don't you all discuss it here for a bit. get involved. Let the conversation flow on THIS topic. You know the direction we're headed in... explore the topic.
Kay'well... about the car... if I only care about what I think
greyhoundmetaprograms? internal external?
JonathanAyes grey
Dan_26hmmmm. . . are we dicussin the map vs. the territory in relation to rep. systems? watching from the sidelines here
Kay'I'm not going to be influenced by dealer saying
KalleeThe authorities all agree but its up to you
Kay'Joe blow says this is a really good deal.... I don't care what the authorities say, I think its a bad car
greyhoundyet, somehow I think you still will be taking in sensory data to decide on the car somewhere. He may be able to figure out when and what for that data is, and pace it
Dan_26ah, internal frame of reference vs. external?
Kalleehow do you know when you have bought a good car?
Kay'I feel like I own the road. And it makes me look cute. *grin!*
Dan_26i don't know what it is you do when you decide for yourself that you have discovered you have found the right automobile for you. . .
JonathanADan VERY GOOD
greyhoundyeah, good dan
Ollie_Not sure about internal vs. external - the next thing is usually Remembered vs. Constructed, isn't it?
Kalleeso you use both systems too , Kay'
Dan_26but I just want you to know that as that process is taking place, you might just find this car to be intersting, for your own reasons, or not. . . :)
KalleeThat's common internal for decisions external for evidence
JonathanAYes Ollie, hah!
Kay'but my friend says not to buy a foreign car... now is that external, Jonathan?
JonathanAKallee is on-the-money
Ollie_Is that the same thing?
JonathanANot really Ollie -- Remembered vs Constructed is more about timelines -- Past, Future
Ollie_i.e., remembered = external, constructed = internal? Oh OK
Kay'Kallee like seeing the word and does it feel right?
JonathanACan often be linked to internal reference vs external reference...but is not the same thing.
greyhoundI wonder if real dogs construct smells
JonathanA(to my understanding, anyway -- if you feel differently tell me so)
Kalleemy girl friend will keep changing clothes until I tell her she looks pretty
JonathanAhehheh No doubt, greyhound, otherwise how could they get excited about hearing the name of a dog-friend from the neighborhood!
Kay'Kallee external...?
KalleeKay': right on
JonathanARemember dogs have MUCH more powerful olfactory systems than we do -- its a primary for them -- so when they remember another dog, smell plays a very important role.
JonathanAAnyway, they hear the name, they think about playing with that dog, and they get excited (assuming we're talking about a smart dog here).
Kalleebut when she buys clothes even if we are together she ignores me
Kay'Kallee internal...?
Kalleeshe says" you just want something skimpy"
JonathanAskimpy = visual & external
Dan_26would that be AOK?
Kalleeso in different context different, strategy's
Ollie_I still haven't got the hang of internal & external - could you give a really obvious example?
JonathanAAnd the moment you're talking about a different purchase, the sale strategy changes to something else again!
Dan_26skimpy= visual and external hmmmm. . . is that external based on her friend's statement or based on her own conclusion that this outfit is skimpy?
Kay'i think external in that people will think its skimpy
Kalleewhen she buys she cares how she feel and looks to herself; when she's going out she wants me (and others ) to admire her
JonathanAIts the only way for Kallee to experience skimpy clothing on someone else. Kino would only play a role in terms of the feel of the material, which would be the same skimpy or big, or the feel of the skin in the places there isn't any clothing... ;) which probably isn't the case when she's shopping and trying stuff on
Kay'if you responded to the outfit visually (eyes bug out) and didn't say anything, would it be the same? or does she need to hear the words?
Dan_26ok, so she's hallucinating others' opinion of her appearance and basing the decision on that rather than simply looking in the mirror and thinking "skimpy" just by virtue of the fact of what she's wearing
JonathanAdepends on her strategy for appreciation, Kay'!!!!
Kalleeshe is wise to me My eyes bug out and she doesn't buy it
Ollie_So, is it: internal is how you feel, what you see, what you hear... external is how you look, sound, & feel to other people?
Kalleehowever I can buy it for her
Kay'so she has to hear it...
JonathanAok this is all quite useful but we're extending the discussion to include repsystems again! Lets move on to another MetaProgram
Kalleeis Ollie clear Johnathan?
Ollie_Oops, sorry, I think I missed the point of that one...
Ollie_internal & external is a separate metaprogram from rep systems, right?
JonathanAInternal is making the decision internally, feeling things in your body, hearing your own voice talking to yourself...
Kalleeseeing yourself...
JonathanAseeing things from your own eyes in your memories (associated as opposed to dissociated). External is paying more attention to things going on around you... and in your memories its more hearing external conversations... seeing other people doing things...
greyhoundthat's interesting
Kalleetaking feedback
JonathanAseeing yourself in the picture with others... sure
Ollie_OK right - I think I've got it now.
greyhoundis a stomach ache internal or external?
JonathanAdepends on if you see yourself in a picture with weird colors around the stomach.
Kalleeyours or someone elses?
JonathanAHow YOU experience it determines the answer, grey!
JonathanALOL! Kallee -- exactly!
JonathanAThis is all about paying very close attention to the WAY people experience things.
Ollie_Is there a definitive list of metaprograms? Or is it pretty open-ended?
JonathanAAnd other people experience things VERY differently than us, often, and the subtleties such as whether someone is associated vs dissociated in their pictures can make a lot of difference! Its open-ended. I've seen some lists here and there (various prac/master prac manuals have good lists). And whatever contrasting elements of experience you can imagine are real metaprograms.
Kay'associated / disassociated = another meta program...?
JonathanAI wondered who would grab at that seed I left out there... Sure Kay, its pretty much a fully Visual MetaProgram. There's not a lot available in the standard books out on the shelves.
Ollie_Anything you'd recommend?
greyhoundUnlimited Power seems to have some good stuff on metaprograms
JonathanAPersuasion Engineering & Tony's books. ;) hah yes Grey
Dan_26i'd love to explore another metaprogram :)

Chunk Size!
JonathanAWell I was going to head into that but I kinda wanted to just talk in general about metaprograms.
greyhoundthat's like the size of the pieces of dog food?
JonathanAAnd how you can use them to pay attention to people's sorting mechanisms. Kinda like that. And its useful, and you can use it to influence people, etc. Good for sales, fun to play with. Y'know. All that stuff.
JonathanALots of things, yeah. Chunk Size. Amount of detail. Yeah.
greyhoundum, a General vs Surgeon
JonathanASome people like big picture. Some people like lots of tiny details. Generally speaking.
Ollie_Hey, I want specifics! How can I get the guy on the checkout at the supermarket to give me 10p off a dozen eggs?
JonathanARead some of the NLP books, Ollie, you'll get lots of ideas
Ollie_What, exactly, would I have to say to him?
Ollie_Give me it word for word - exact tonalities as well
JonathanAA number of things could come to mind, after tonight, I'd guess
Dan_26it depends a lot on him Ollie and how you respond to him
JonathanAYou might just say the right things at the right time. Things might just easily go more smoothly. Pay attention to the flow of your voice through the conversation
Dan_26can we develop chunk size a little more general/detailed
Kay'more smoothly than what?
JonathanAanyhooooo I'll come down out of the clouds here for a bit... Did anyone here not get/understand/see what we were doing?
greyhoundgot it
JonathanAI was staying Big Chunk, and Ollie was getting more specific.
JonathanAWhen this happens, two people have lots of trouble communicating. And this specifically happens ALL THE TIME in the real world, doesn't it?
greyhoundI'm usually too specific for people
Dan_26so this is related to Milton/meta models (general/specific)?
JonathanAOllie, nice pickup..... you got right into character! lol
greyhoundmost people
Dan_26or can be paralleled at least
Ollie_There was a "heated discussion" in another ng I read recently...
JonathanAIN YOUR PAST, grey... ;)
Ollie_& one of the participants said of another:
JonathanAYes, Dan absolutely. MetaModel is for getting more specific, for acquiring a deeper understanding of another person's DEEP structure.
Ollie_"I can imagine saying to him, 'Nice weather, isn't it?', and he'd start quoting the meteorological data."
greyhounddeep past?
Dan_26lol olie
JonathanAMilton Model is for getting more general, and for feeding generalized responses, perhaps even for providing a new DEEP structure... (for the skilled or soon-to-be-more-skilled out there) ;)
JonathanAHah! Great example Ollie!
JonathanANote. MetaModel typically reduces/breaks rapport.....
Ollie_I think I tend to ask people to be more specific if they're being rather vague...
Kay'or that one about ask him the time and he tells you how to make a watch
Ollie_that's a meta-modeling thing I've picked up.
JonathanAMilton Model, used well, can increase rapport. Sometimes it can be annoying though, when not used with care or with grace.
Dan_26how many of us learned that one the hard way? lol
JonathanASure. I did! LOL
greyhoundit would have been annoying to me
JonathanADamn -- we're really getting through a LOT tonight, aren't we? This is GREAT!
greyhoundI did too!
JonathanAOK Recap - we defined MetaPrograms...
Dan_26learning a lot, let's keep it rolling
JonathanAwe talked about Chunk Size, Internal Reference vs. External, Rep Systems & Strategies...
greyhoundwhat rolling?
JonathanAConstructed vs Remembered
Dan_26did I miss that one?
Kay'the dog...
JonathanAbrief answer to a question. Smelling things ;)
JonathanAit was a cool example, greyhound!
greyhoundI thought it stunk :)
JonathanAAlrighty. I want to give credit for another cool one to a trainer that doesn't get a lot of credit in NLP.
Dan_26so what do you think about it now? :)
greyhoundok, thanks
JonathanAThere's one MetaProgram you don't see a lot of airplay on, often referred to as "Trance Words."
greyhounduh oh
Kay'more more more
JonathanAPeople have trigger words that they value/place emphasis on... and if you pay close attention to those particular words... as you elicit important values from them...
StygianI know some people say things and then repeat the last part of what the said, like "the fish was big, it was big"
JonathanAyou can catalog them, store them away, and repeat them back to those other people within other contexts or with other words for other things. Right Styg! Sometimes they repeat them!
StygianWhen I repeat to them "yeah, it was big" they trip out
JonathanABut just a lot of emphasis is enough. When you say Trip out, what do you mean, specifically? ;) Give us a sensory description of what occurs...
Kay'jonathan example? specific?
JonathanAwell -- lets wait for styg for a sec
Kay'small chunk *grin!*
Stygianthey act like they are on drugs
JonathanAHow, specifically? Use your memory of what you observed!
Stygianthey just act weird, like you know how a 3 volt wire would act if you ran 100 volts through it, that's how their brain acts
JonathanAStygian wants to stay big chunk ;)
Ollie_They're kind of like anchors, yes?
JonathanAThe kinds of answers that are *really helpful* to this kind of Question is... "their breathing suddenly quickened... their pupils dilated... their posture shifted a lot, they opened their mouth wider, etc. Sensory specific descriptions!
StygianWhen I am around people who do that all the time, it gets irritating
JonathanAcan do a LOT for getting people to pay closer attention to how the use of NLP is being effective or otherwise. Unless you have a clear feedback loop, it doesn't work as well!
Dan_26back to the metamodel breaking rapport
JonathanAirritating to you, perhaps, but people here learn more from this when you provide sensory rich descriptions. Just offering the counter response, Styg. Not trying to break rapport or be annoying. Yes Dan -- fire away
StygianI was talking about it is irritating when people repeat the last part of what they say. Sensory rich descriptions, I like
JonathanAoh! My error! My apologies, of course! Nature of the IRC lag, I guess... {sheepish grin} Folks, I'm going to run out of steam here in about 15 minutes personally, and you can certainly continue on your own, but I thought I should just let folks know I'm getting towards closure for the evening (soon, not now)! Dan? MetaModel & Rapport? What did you want to pursue?
Kalleetrance word have the assumption that something is so.... they are commonly imperitives (notice , aware, etc) sooo you create the accuracy of the assumption from the subconscious.
Dan_26nothing there, I was misinterpreting Sty's statement also. ;)
greyhounddoesn't the metamodel use breaking rapport depend on what you ask questions about? and, possibly, what representational system that thing is in?
Dan_26everything is always context dependent, I agree grey
JonathanAKallee can you elaborate a little? Not sure I understood what you were getting at. Yes greyhound, and yet, with the metamodel you force people to break off contact with YOU, and go inside their minds to search their memories, and do what we call a TDS (TransDerivational Search). Any TDS causes an Internal frame shift, which focuses them away from you! Ergo, Rapport is broken.
greyhoundbut you can still sort of follow them in, no?
JonathanAIt doesn't mean you both don't synch up again once they come out of the tds instantly, it just means, rapport is broken.
Kalleea trance word assumes...(as you're NOTICING) the person will begin to notice -- in agreement with your suggestion but if used properly from the inside
JonathanAYes you CAN still follow them in... but that's more for the person asking the metamodel questions to stay in rapport with the person having all the TDS'es! (I think). I mean, that's my perspective/opinion on it. If you think/feel differently -- PLEASE share it with the group!
Ollie_Kallee, I don't know offhand the terminology Ross uses, but I don't think that's what Jonathan means by trance words
JonathanAI'm interested if you experience it differently!
Kalleei am just not expressing myself very elegantly
JonathanAyes it is Ollie -- I know Kallee personally so I think we're on the same page ;) but I could be mind-reading too {big grin}! Its about causing an internal reaction on their part that responds to the use of a word which means SO much to them! Am I on target, Kallee, with where you were headed?
Ollie_Oh, sorry - what Kallee was describing sounded more like a particular language pattern
greyhoundI think the metamodel can be used externally too
JonathanAwelcome eyl & Questor_, we're close to done but not done yet ;)
Kalleethe assumption of a trance word is the thought that comes from another awareness
greyhoundI mean, sort of think about how detailed baseball announcers can be
Dan_26so trance words appear to be related to the Milton model, and can be used for rapport and to lead into a state associated with that word
JonathanAahhhhh yes, now I get it!
JonathanAYES, Dan!
Kalleethe other awareness ( the subconscious) seeks to create agreement
greyhoundtrance words are words that have large associations with them? as opposed to words that don't?
JonathanAI'd agree with you on that, greyhound.
Kalleegrey: internal associations
Ollie_We haven't had an example of a trance word (you can have trance phrases as well)
StygianI think people tend to speak with a general set of vocabulary they use
greyhoundso they are like anchors for internal states, that may have been set up somewhere else. or, anchors to past experiences
JonathanAHard to get an example over IRC. Listening for them is an Auditory process.
Kalleegrey: right on
JonathanAMany of us use them while eliciting values.  Values words are often trance words (but not always).
greyhoundum, you could, if you had enough rapport, and followed the representational system, use the metamodel to find out more about what the trance word elicits

If you ask someone about their values in a partner, someone might say, "well, I like someone who's HONEST. And he has to have a NICE CAR. Because I want him to be AMBITIOUS."  

We would often hear emphasis on the words shown in capitals.

Kalleea commonly used word anchor example, find yourself, as if, notice etc.
JonathanAYou're listening for the emphasis.
greyhoundIts like when you have an idea you want to describe, and someone helps you to express that idea, it actually makes you feel closer to that person.
JonathanAyes! Kay, how would YOU use the above? ;)
Kalleeare you talking trance words of criteria?
JonathanACan be criteria...
Kalleei mean or
JonathanAdoesn't have to be.
Kay'use how?
greyhoundI'm talking about trance words and the Milton model both :)
Dan_26when someone brings into the conscious that which you feel/see/hear unconsciously, now THERE'S a connection! :)
JonathanAWhat circumstances could you imagine yourself using the process of paying attention to someone else's Trance Words, and feeding them back to those individuals to gain deeper levels of understanding.
Ollie_Jonathan, I think Kay' wants you to reduce your chunk size ;)
Kay'Oh. gotcha.
KalleeYou're PROBABLY beginning to NOTICE... am I on the right page here?
greyhoundwell, don't bring into consciousness things that they aren't ready for, or there's a good way to break rapport :)
Stygianbeginning to notice...hmmm..I like that phrase
Ollie_Kallee, I think you're talking about patterns that you would use - I mean the same words - with anyone
JonathanAThat's absolutely true greyhound
Kay'refer to myself as HONEST. and he's not... like "its tough to be HONEST, in this world, but when you are
Ollie_(I may be mind reading here, though)
Dan_26i should have said bring into consciousness things they are trying to but can't because of this funny language thing we have here
Kay'you and you know you're being HONEST, it makes it all worthwhile...
greyhoundsometimes they are things that they wish to keep secret to you, not themselves
greyhoundever been in front of a judge
Kay'because if your HONEST, and AMBITIOUS... like me, you uh uh... end up driving a nice car?
greyhoundone that makes you feel cute?
Kay'he he
greyhoundnow, does the seat position make you feel cute?
Ollie_So, Jonathan, has this been a COOL discussion?
Kalleefor example, You're probably WONDERING minvites them to go inside. WHAT ? WAS I WONDERING?
Kay'only if it puts me higher than any body....
JonathanAHahhhah! It's been really Cool!
greyhoundthen, you want a truck
KalleeI mean invites
Kay'yeah, or a uh... sports utility... Jonathan what are you LOL'ing at?
Dan_26next topic request: Metaprograms II :) lol
JonathanAI'm LOL'ing at everyone using each others COOL Trance words - including mine... *grin!*
Kay'KEWL.. and COOL!
JonathanAOK folks....
StygianHave you ever said LOL to someone in person when they said something funny? ;)
Kay'the corners of my eyes are sprouting tears from smiling so hard...
JonathanAYes Styg... you know you're a nerd when you start an answer with "IMHO"
greyhoundactually, I almost did that! now I don't type LOL anymore, I just type heh, or haha, or :)
Dan_26we could have an interesting discussion on the differences between "trance words" and "non-trance words"
JonathanATHANK YOU ALL for coming tonight... we kept it short and sweet! Done in under 2 hours? Not bad folks...
Kay'its all your fault
Kalleebye thanks
greyhoundwow, I'm a good dog! thanks for the topic :)
JonathanAI'm going to be AWAY FROM KEYBOARD but I'll probably stick around for another hour (back in 20 minutes or so!)
Dan_26another awesome one, thanks Jonathan and everyone else!
JonathanAThank you ALL -- this may have been the best one yet!
glen_sterthanks Jonathan Eh!
Ollie_See you next time, I hope. Thanks Jonathan.
Dan_26they keep getting better and better
Kay'I can't help being hyper... I'm going to take a training!!
Stygian...thanks JonathanA


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