NLP Master Trainer Kathleen LaValle on EVERY WHICH WAY AND LOOSE!

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Featuring Kathleen La Valle

IRC Chat Log, December 13, 1998

The content of this chat transcript is © Kathleen La Valle. All rights reserved in all media. This chat is published here by express written permission.
DHE, Design Human Engineering, are ™ Richard Bandler.

Featuring Kathleen La Valle!
Jonathan Kathleen, thank you very much for agreeing to do a chat with me & the folks here! Welcome! Kathleen has joined us under the topic of "EVERY WHICH WAY AND LOOSE!" Take it away, Kathleen!
Kathleen Hello Jonathan and guests, I am delighted to be here. Tonight will be a night of fun and adventure!
Jonathan, Dluzi, venus, Maxin (Lots of applause!)
Jonathan Welcome again. You mentioned, Kathleen... that you wanted to talk about how to have much more fun with NLP!!!
Kathleen I get many questions about people who take NLP courses, and they complain that they can't practice NLP because they don't have time, or others to do it with. This is when I wonder if they really understand the tool, or toy, they have. NLP is not something that you take off the shelf like some dusty old book once in a while to use... there is an opportunity every second to practice and to use (& play with) it! It is a wondrous thing, this NLP stuff! Agree, Jonathan?
Jonathan Of course!
Maxin I'm nodding!
Kathleen Well, I wonder if some of you have ever said this. And I would like to explore how many ways we can use it and have fun!
Jonathan Is there any limit?
Kathleen Noooooo! Limit? What is that?
Jonathan Awww, come on, don't we need a limit to understand how far we can go?
Kathleen I think I have forgotten that word! Must be the amnesia pattern. NLP can be so much more for you, too!
Jonathan At seminars, many people have pointed out how more smoothly you seem to understand how to make NLP tools work more effectively for each person.
Kathleen Oh, come now, flattery will get you everywhere!
Jonathan And I know I also get a few people now & again who say "I took the NLP Prac course (with other trainers) about 4 years ago, and I never really used it." Inside, I thought, 'How could that happen?' when we know how easy some of these things are to do!
Kathleen That is exactly what I am saying. Sometimes this is due to how it is taught. If it is taught purely from the intellectual approach. Yuck!
Amplifying Your Belief Change Results!
Jonathan Can you give me an example of how someone might be taught something, maybe with good intentions, but somehow someone doesn't quite get it, or tries it but it doesn't quite work yet?
Kathleen Yes. I will keep names out of this, though. I got an email from someone who was stuck with a belief change technique. They were following step by step from the book exactly, and not getting anywhere. They were trying to install a new belief and using the submodalities of a current belief that was strong, so they were using it as they were taught...
Jonathan (Sounds like a good start on their part, anyway... I think most people approach NLP from having read the books)
Kathleen They had the belief that "there is a chair" or that "chairs exist." Well it was a strong belief; you could not talk them out of it! But just how important is that to them? What feelings are attached to it? Hmmmm.. a chair... Whoopeee!!! So the new belief had the "oh boy, a chair" level of feelings attached. Not much! So I asked them what belief did they have that was strong, powerful and had good juicy feelings attached?
Jonathan Ahhhh, cool distinction!
Kathleen Like, "do you like playing with your children, or watching them be born?" And they lit up!
Jonathan But wait a sec., what's the difference regarding the exercise? They're both STRONG beliefs, Kathleen.
Kathleen The feelings were stronger and juicy! So when they used that belief, the new belief had powerful and juicy feelings.. now doesn't it already? Heheheh! Just a little difference, still by the book.
Jonathan The books don't cover these distinctions very often... Hmmmmm.... :)
Kathleen But it is looking at the process of how it works, that is the job of the trainer! Books are maps, you know, not as exciting as the journey through the territory!
Jonathan OK, let's see if this actually works for someone!
Kathleen What would you like to do?
Jonathan Is there someone here who knows the book approach to a belief change with submodalities, and has chosen "the sun will come up tomorrow" or some such bland but strong belief? Someone who wants to try out this distinction?
Maxin Yes
Kathleen Hello Maxin! Take a belief that is strong, true and gets you excited! Feeling real goooood! See the difference, feel the difference, hear the difference, etc. etc.
Maxin That's cool!
Kathleen How is it different?
Maxin It's not dull! The fact that 'the sun will come up tomorrow' -- so?
Kathleen That is right! Now imagine that everything you thought was dull about practicing NLP or anything else that was... and run those feelings through this new way! Way good! Hmmmm...
Maxin Sounds like fun!
Jonathan (I'm running some belief changes too in the background :) My face is getting flushed :)
Kathleen This is what making NLP or anything more fun! Become an adventurer! We will all be the Indiana Jones of NLP by the end of the night! Find ways to practice NLP in line at the bank, or at the grocery store, or walking down the street. Elevators are great! You have a captured audience! hehehe
Jonathan Trance Induction... 12.... 11.... 10....
Kathleen 9 8 7.. oh well, another day in paradise! By the way, the complaint that this fellow had was that he could not get a picture of the new belief. And that was because the feelings were not strong enough! When he did it the new way, the pictures just popped in, big & bright!
PureNLP Basically what Kathleen's saying for you linguistics folks out there is that, some people are taught in a "frames" system (techniques) and not in a knowledge-structure system, where it is recognized that, not only are the learners' databases being filled with knowledge, but that they also have a database of knowledge already in place. If more people would teach about composition, then more people would learn to use NLP every moment of each and every day! Composition is where the meaning of the whole is a systematic function of the meaning of the parts.
Allergic to Allergies!
Jonathan Who has an example.... of the use of an NLP technique.... that has not worked well for them... in the past? Kathleen's a wizard at helping people to get it all working to the point where you're grinning when its done :)
Maxin Allergies?
Kathleen Ahhhhhh-chooooo! Sorry.
Maxin No problem.
Kathleen I'm allergic to allergies! Well look at it this way. What is an allergy?
Maxin A reaction.
Kathleen It is the body's response to a foreign subsance. We breath in pollen and our body goes: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! So we call out the troops, but too much, and sometimes we over react. Hmmmm what NLP technique is used when someone over reacts to a stimulus, that someone else might seem to be fine with?
Jonathan Phobia... Fix...
finter They have a phobia of pollen!
tranzpupy Oh, yeah!
Kathleen Yeah! How can someone else breath pollen or walk up to a cat, and be fine? Now, I agree sometimes there are intolerances, but those are not allergies. Dairy {for example} -- that is when enzymes are missing. So try the phobia fix! Or, use submodality distinctions like collapsing anchors.
Maxin I'm talking alergies to cats, and especially horses.
Kathleen Ok, so do it. Do the phobia fix or collapsing anchors or work with submodalities! They work!
Maxin Ok, I'll do that!
Kathleen I have helped many with that. Someday, John will tell you how he cured someone of an allergy conversationally in 10 seconds!
tranzpupy coool!
Kathleen They did not know it, until they were exposed to the substance, did not react, then called John laughing and said "did you do something when I was at your house?"
tranzpupy oh, great!!
finter I suffer really badly from hayfever in the Summer months.
Jonathan Finter, what would happen if you changed your belief about what season it actually is when Summer comes around? :)
Submodality Distinctions for a Compulsion Blow-Out
Kathleen Any one else have another challenge?
finter I've got one for you, Kathleen! I'm extremely partial to alcohol.
PureNLP You, too?
finter I want to be able to take it or leave it
PureNLP Hmm!
finter At the moment I seem to be stuck. I can take or leave chocolate for instance.
Jonathan RUBBING alcohol!!! OOOooh, yeah!
Kathleen I don't want to give the impression that we are doing counseling over this chat. because I would want to explore some areas and motivations
finter Sure - I understand
Jonathan I agree, along with a quick comment: This is not therapy, or any kind of replacement for it. This is about learning how to do things better on our OWN. Obviously, if anyone views this chat as other than EDUCATION, please be on your way... :)
Kathleen I will comment on this in one second. What I am looking for is where people say I can't find ways to practice NLP in their everyday life. Now, Finter, if you do have something that you can control, and something that you can't, then there must be something very different in the decision strategies. So look at the submodality comparison, and look for the ones that drives the desire and lessen it. Look for the one that allows you to say no about chocolate and strengthen that one in the alchohol. Understand? Like a compulsion blow-out, for those who have had it. Then start filling yourself with good feelings, and taking good care of yourself!
finter Ahh. I read about the compulsion blow out. Thanks!
Making Mundane Tasks EASY & FUN!
Kathleen Now, any more challenges in practicing NLP? Let's take a mundane task, and see how we can make it fun, and chock full of NLP!
Jonathan Yes, I have a good one... that a friend brought up a while back: He had paperwork piled up 1 foot high on his desk :) And he needed to get through it, and wanted to be able to do it easily & naturally :)
Kathleen Ok
Jonathan He knew quite a bit of NLP at that point, through a variety of sources. So he had a lot of tools at his disposal. But somehow or other, none of the ones he tried... worked for him up until then!
Kathleen Well the first approach is to start with a good feeling! Not the one that says "Ohhhh, gotta...!" Start with how good it will feel getting it done fast and easy. Not "when it is done then you would walk away and feel it was done and it would still be there." So the distinction is important between feeling good about the process, or that it is already done! Feel good about the process, then realize what the task is attached to, & why you are doing it. Because cleeaning piles of papers is not exactly WhooooHooo! But what is the value of the job? What will it do for you to have the job done? More time to play cause you will find things easier! Or you can use your DHE™ speed time machine, and go through the job in fast time, like the flash!
NLP & More Choices!
Kathleen Well, this brings me to another email I received! Someone asked the definition of NLP. And someone answered that it is about having choices in life. Making a choice about everything, from how you wake up in the morning, to whether you live or die. It was about a man who lived his life like this every moment. He made choices about feeling good, when others were trying to make him feel bad, when things went wrong. He decided to learn from them, instead of being defeated. One day he was shot in his store and they did not expect him to live, and he said to the nurses as they asked him about allergies. He said "yes, one: bullets!" They were amazed he chose humor at that moment! He also said he chose to live, so operate on him as an alive person, not a dead one. And he lived!
tranzpupy that was cool, Kathleen.
Kathleen Oh well. It is about choice. That is what I am thinking about when I use NLP. How can I change things with NLP, & do it differently each time?
Jonathan How do you feel about that definition? Is that a good all-encompassing definition?
Kathleen Yes, I think so. It is about having choices, and being able to make good ones. So many people buy the BS that you must react a certain way or feel a certain way if someone does something to you.
GillE Isn't it sometimes enabling to decide NOT to choose?
PureNLP GillE, isn't that the same? Decide vs choose? Sheesh!
Kathleen Oh, if you "NOT" choose then that is a choice!
Jonathan Indeed. If you choose not to choose :)
PureNLP Or decide not to decide, or decide not to choose.
Jonathan Abstinence IS a choice. (for other people, I suppose).
Tref Bad choice to let another choose for you.
Kathleen Think of someone who is stuck.
PureNLP uh... uh... uh...
Kathleen What are they not choosing?
Mezmer1 A training with Kathleen and John and Richard!
AccessNLP To be curious!
Kathleen Hehehe, Thank you, Mezmer1!
Dan26 From the band Rush, the song 'Free Will:' If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice
tranzpupy I choose that training.
PureNLP Hey, Dan, I like that!!
tranzpupy They're choosing not to make the decision. which means... fate happens..
GillE We must also choose to tune in, pay attention to everything, even if painful. Otherwise we deny ourselves tools needed to make choices.
PureNLP No way, that painful thing. Too many other choices!
Jonathan Yep, kick that pain thing out the door. No need, no interest, no thanks! :)
PureNLP No musts. No more!
Kathleen Pain does exist, but choose how much and how long, and turn it into something more useful!
Jonathan 1/2 second, & enough for me to say, "done!"
Kathleen Even in grief there are good memories.
Haylie Kathleen i agree!!!
GillE What is useful to turn it into?
Kathleen And what would that person want to leave for you, pain or pleasurable memories? Got it, GillE?
GillE Pain is a useful tool?
Haylie Pleasure and pain we can learn a lot from; funny thing is that we sometimes remember the painful things more clearly.
Kathleen Haylie, may I go deeper with this as an example?
Haylie Sure.
Kathleen It is precisely that language that I am talking about. We sometime remember more clearly.
GillE Yes, NLP is a lot about language, isn't it?
Haylie I'm listening.
Kathleen Very dissociated, as if we have no control over these thoughts.
Haylie Okay, you're right!
Kathleen We can choose to make pleasurable things more clear, learn from the others, and then make them foggier. Haylie, understand?
Haylie I do understand, Kathleen
Kathleen OK, good.
Haylie But.... :)
Kathleen I smell a but!
Haylie Uh oh!
Kathleen Uh oh!
Haylie What if you are too young to understand?
Kathleen Says who? We understand language in the womb! What are you referring to?
Haylie It's a little easier for adults then childeren to understand; Children just go through the motions.
Kathleen Hahahahaha sorry
Haylie hehehe
Kathleen Children are better at NLP!
Haylie Yes, they certainly are.
Kathleen They don't have all those useful beliefs of "gee, that is not real, it's just make-believe."
Haylie Depends on how far you wanna take things; some kids are screwed up.
Kathleen I dont want to take them anywhere! Kids aren't screwed up. They may have made bad choices based on what they have been taught or experience. They can be retaught.
Haylie Okay, whatever you wanna call it, but if no one takes the time with them, then what? Then they stay in the trap of believeing unhealthy things.
Kathleen Then nothing. Someone must do it. You? Or are you in need of more time or training?
Haylie I do it all the time! I have 4 kids. Some more challenging than the others.
Kathleen Well, I see that this is more like you are still a bit dissociated from the problem.
Haylie That's why I'm here!
Kathleen Is there something specific? Or, you can email me privately and we will move on.
Haylie I could. :)
Kathleen Ok, let us move on then. And, Haylie -- associate to the solutions. Feel good! It is just a choice. Then look at the problem.
Haylie I will try harder next time.
Jonathan :) "try" presupposes the possibility of failure.... don't try. Have fun & do!
Kathleen NO trying! :)
Having Fun with the Meta-Model, to Improve Results
Mezmer1 Sometimes i find it challenging to receive answers from people using the Meta-Model? People give me vague answers the more specific I try to get? It's like they unconsciously know the Meta-Model or levels of abstraction. Any tips, Kathleen?
Kathleen Ah, the meta monster! Well, yes, it is about direction, and rapport. How do you approach the use of the Meta Model? Can you give me an example
Mezmer1 I set the frame immediately some times, so they have my intention up front. Other times, I don't set a context.
Kathleen If you chunk down too quick, they will go vague. You got too personal too quick or too intimate. Got to earn and direct it
Mezmer1 I just presuppose I will get an answer
Kathleen If you set your intention up front, then that is chunking up. How is that going for more specificity?
Mezmer1 It's like I set my true intention, and then from that I ask specific questions directed towards the person. It's like they think that my intention is just an excuse to get answers for other reasons.
Kathleen Pace down the ladder you just demonstrated you are up, then you go to the details. Walk them down.
Mezmer1 I agree theoretically.
Kathleen Theo? Oh no!
PureNLP Theoretically?
Jonathan HAH!
Mezmer1 Practically, how do you describe zero response in chunk level?
PureNLP At the mid-point of the grid.
Kathleen thank you John, gotta meet them half-way. Everyone, think about the Meta Model...
Mo_Ron My wife would like a simple definition of Meta-Model, please.
Jonathan The Meta Model is a set of language patterns that we learn to listen for, in order to build a more accurate internal understanding of other people's subjectivity!
Kathleen Everyone, think about the Meta Model, and the different sizes of information, and the directions it goes, like on one big grid. This is what I am talking about in jazzing up your NLP practice! Now become pac man! Hear the music -- wocka wocka! This is what I do to amuse myself! Use imagination! Become the adventurer! If you are going to take someone up or down the grid of info, have fun with it instead of having performance anxiety about doing it right, or keeping track! Make it something else that makes you laugh and you will be surprised how much you will remember! Especially if you learned it with the laughter, and we all know where to get that kind of training, now, don't we?
PureNLP In Austin? Austin, Texas? With RB? Huh?
Jonathan Austin!!!
Kathleen Hmmmm! Could be, yes! Yeee Haaa!
tranzpupy Wooooooooo! Mmmmm!
Mezmer1 I'm swimming across the pacific to get there!
Kathleen It is amazing when it goes in with good feelings! How easy it is to use it, everyday and in every way! Life is an adventure!
Jonathan If there was ever a time to see Richard & John... it's this February in Austin TX... No one runs a smoother seminar than Kathleen...
PureNLP I'll say. Keeps me outta trouble!
Kathleen But I cant gaurantee that there will be seats left!
Jonathan If anyone's interested either or both of these two trainings, visit http://www.purenlp.com and check out what you'll miss if you don't SIGN UP! Then call them at 1-973-770-3600 to sign up.
The Holidays, Relatively Speaking...
Kathleen Now the holidays are coming, everyone's looking forward to those family functions! Relatively speaking.
Jonathan Uh oh, cheesecake
Kathleen Hmmm cheesecake... nah... celery!
IntriKate Heh
Kathleen No cheesecake!
Jonathan AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH celery :)
Kathleen Look at what you started!
AccessNLP Sugarplum faeries!
Haylie Celery is good; you can eat it 24-7 and not gain a pound!
venus Celery cheesecake, mmm!
Jonathan Hmmm, yeah.... lots & lots of SALARY, I want more SALARY
venus Salary cheesecake, better!
Haylie Cheesecake... stop teasing me!
Kathleen You know about the theory of relativity?
Jonathan Relativity?
Kathleen Sure! When relatives come over, space gets smaller, and time gets longer!
Haylie, Jonathan, Venus Laughing...
Kathleen Well, think of someone who gets on your nerves during the holidays.
PureNLP Yeah...
Kathleen How do you choose to react, usually?
PureNLP Throw them out. Like that neighbor!
Jonathan What neighbor? He moved out, finally.
PureNLP Not yet!
IntriKate Leave.
Haylie Laugh it off! I'm having a good time, regardless.
Jonathan Throw the cheescake at 'em!
Tref Put on armor, and play loud music?
Kathleen Hahaha!
PureNLP Take out the laser cannons!
Kathleen I think some of you are getting this! PS.: he is not kidding about the lasers, ask Dom!
Haylie Put on a happy face...and if you can't handle it, LEAVE!
tranzpupy Make a wee-wee on their desk.
PureNLP Bark at them
Haylie Bite their ass!
PureNLP Ouch. And yuk!
Haylie LOL, kidding!
Jonathan Kathleen, before learning NLP I might've stewed in my annoyance and given it back! Not a particularly pretty choice.
Kathleen How many ways can you now think of dealing with it
Jonathan Why would I need to deal with it? Why would it be an issue now? :)
Kathleen I like to do funny things, like, treat them nice.
PureNLP Not me!
Kathleen Drives them crazy when they are expecting to annoy you!
Tref Jon: Re: Stewing: i've done that at work to the point that the boss wants rid of me.. tuesday is performance review.. "I pity da fool!"
Jonathan I think the easiest response is to -- YEAH -- react from a different state than the one they might have induced in me (in the past)
Haylie I dont have that problem, but unnecessary energy is involved with crap. I dont have any.
Kathleen Oh, submodalities are great, too, with trance! You can stretch their face (in your mind, of course)! In your mind, I repeat, in your mind... :)
PureNLP I just look at them and defocus my eyes while looking right past them and say, "Now... you and I are..."
Kathleen Or, change their voice, change their clothes.
PureNLP Change their location! Throw them out!
Kathleen It is about having fun and knowing you are in charge. You are driving the bus, as the boss says.
Jonathan You might change their species. How can you get mad at a tree sloth, anyway?
tranzpupy Which tree sloth, specifically?
PureNLP Give 'em Ex-Lax in a Godiva box. And thought.
Initial Wrap-up!
Kathleen I think this would be a good time for final questions, Jonathan.
Jonathan Indeed. Whew! You've got some automatic, intuitive answers to optimize these techniques, Kathleen. I think it's really generous of you to come and offer your time to everyone like this.
venus Yes!
Kathleen Thank you.
Jonathan Does anyone have any wrap-up questions to ask of Kathleen?
PureNLP Yeah, I do
tranzpupy Kathleen, will you do this again? It was great!
Kathleen Yes, I would love to.
Jonathan Kathleen knows she's totally welcome any time at all; we can schedule another in the future whenever convenient!
Tref Just a comment... Kathleen ROCKS! Thank you from the core of my being!
Kathleen You're welcome, Tref.
PureNLP What're ya doing after this, tonight? Can I show you my etchings? Itchings? I-Chings?
Kathleen PureNLP, I will be happy to see your etchings
AccessNLP Ka-Chings!
PureNLP ROFLMAO!
tranzpupy Great!
PureNLP That's itchings! I mean I-Chings, dear
Kathleen I will scratch your itchings.
PureNLP Yes, dear.
Jonathan Some people are just too cool, and stand by their word, and do the right thing.
PureNLP Stand by their word? Next to it, like?
Jonathan Yeah, off to the left, about 2 feet. Right?
AccessNLP Hey, you are married! You can't flirt like that anymore. ;-)
PureNLP Wanna bet?
AccessNLP Nope
PureNLP Not any less, either!!!
AccessNLP hahah!
Upcoming Seminars
Jonathan What other big ticket stuff is coming up, John & Kathleen? Austin is hosting the big events in the Spring of 1999...
Kathleen Big result, ticket small in comparison.
Dluzi Big adventure...
Kathleen Well there are the Persuasion Engineering™ and Meta-Master Track™ seminars in Austin, TX. Then in April, there is DHE™ with John La Valle in Chicago!
Jonathan Last year's Meta Master Track™ was nothing short of amazing --
Kathleen Then there are the Practitioner, Master Practitioner, & Trainer's Training (Charisma Enhancement) in Los Angeles in June with Richard Bandler & John La Valle.
PureNLP All the dates are at http://www.purenlp.com, and there's more coming.
Jonathan Yes, indeedy! What a great year it's going to be!
Kathleen Yeee haaaaa! Austin power!
tranzpupy Wow...
Kathleen, Dluzi, ACCESSNLP, Evsys Yeah baby!
Kathleen Hey, lets all look at our challenges that we have in our lives and do one big evil laugh! It helps makes a big difference! Come on everyone, group laugh! Muwhawhaha!
Jonathan, venus, Dluzi, Evsys, PureNLP BWAHAHAHAHHAHA! Yahahahahaha! Gufawwhahaha! Wooooo Hoooo!!! Lololol! Whoooooeeeeeeeeeeeeee!! Hoohaa! Bwahhh ha ha ha!
PureNLP Let's go, dear, we have places to go and people to do!!
Jonathan That's the best way to approach learning & using NLP! I'll thank EVERYONE for coming & participating! What a treat it is to have Kathleen share techniques and an overall approach of fun & adventure!
Kathleen Thank you Jonathan, once again!
IntriKate And etchings
AccessNLP HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Jonathan Get those ENDOMORPHINES kickin!!!
PureNLP YeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
tranzpupy MUHHHHHHaaaaa he he he he hehehehehehhehehehehe
Kathleen A great opportunity for all, from you. A great holiday gift for us all! Thank you!
Jonathan My pleasure, Kathleen!
IntriKate See you in February, John & Kathleen!
PureNLP Thanks, Jonathan!! You make this such an enjoyable place to be!
Jonathan Thanks John!
Dluzi Thanks to Goddess Kathleen...
tranzpupy Coolll
Kathleen Well, good night, everyone, gotta go! Thnk you everyone!
Dluzi Night, Kathleen, and thanks again for all the info.
Evsys, venus, Interest, tranzpupy, Haylie Thanks, Kathleen!
Kathleen Thank you! Remember Austin! Go have fun; be an adventurer! Make good choices with good feelings first!
IRC CHAT OVER!

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