Chat Log: Featuring Joseph Riggio, Applied Behavioral Technologies
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IRC Chat Log, June 21, 1998
All rights reserved; publication rights to the text content of this chat log are shared by & between J. Riggio & J. Altfeld.
Generative Imprint™, Ready State™, Ready Mode™, G.D.S™,
& Generalized Desired State™, as well as the processes they represent,
are trademarks of Roye Fraser, NLP AMERICA/Blue Dell Systems.
| Jonathan | OK folks... I'd like to welcome ALL of you to the first in what will hopefully become a series of chats with featured NLP trainers. I'm really pleased that Joe has agreed to join us tonight for an hour or two of his valuable time and share with us some of his ideas on the present model of NLP and where can we take it? Joe has been training for many years and I'm glad you could join us tonight! Thanks! Joe -- I'm not sure if you have a set format, but perhaps you'd like to start by introducing more of your background... and introducing your topic for the evening! If you wish to invite questions, feel free to do so at any time. And to the attendees -- I'll ask that you wait until he does -- to ask them! I'm done for now -- Joe -- thanks again, and I'm excited about the rest of the evening!
| ethonics | Your welcome ... let's start here ... "Language is the house of 'Being'" -Heiddeger. It's not my intention to put you off with the language usage ... however it's also not my intention to keep you comfortable ... and in this way what I intend is to offer a framework beyond what is 'ordinary' so that we can explore the 'extraordinary' ... since what is 'real' is a function of our perceptual capacity and then our ability to maintain this representation. We need to have access to alternate forms of consciousness ... to match the territory in which we intend the world to be for us... Someone asked earlier (before we started) what kind of NLP do I do? What I think in terms of is the ontological position a person chooses and operate from, this is their desired state of being. A way of being in the world on an ongoing basis ... Roye who I mentioned earlier refers to this in his model the "Generative Imprint™" as the Generalized Desired State, the G.D.S. ... this is both the beginning and the end. what is intended is to operate from this position at all times ... and from this to manifest the experiences that are most desired and in line with this way of being. Then into this ... the G.D.S. ... skills and functionality are layered in ... woven into the DNA as it were ... of the individual. Any questions?
| Occum | Maybe you could explain for some of us what ontology is.
| ethonics | As I use it ... ontology is a way of being ... the individual's ground of Being.
| anat | And is this an inner state or an external state G.D.S.?
| ethonics | Although the terms I use may seem complex at first ... I'm really quite a simple guy! Both ... the GDS is the total in-time representation the individual holds and operates through.
| Jonathan | Webster says Ontology is "A branch of Metaphysics relating to the nature and relations of being......"
| Occum | Ok from my reading ontology is the study of how we know.
| anat | Be-ing and the manifested environment...?
| ethonics | Let me clear things up ... sometimes my usage ain't directly in line with Daniel's... also to go a bit further ... how one knows is what understand 'Epistemology' to be the study of ...
| Jonathan | One question: In yours and Roye's model, Is the G.D.S. a single state? Or does it contextually vary a little bit?
| ethonics | It's Roye's model ... and the GDS is specific to the individual and constant ... with evolutionary possibility independent from the context ... and from the GDS all behavior is flexible in response to the context and aligned with the GDS ... a manifestation of it as well as recursive to it ...
| Occum | I'm sorry your correct.
| ethonics | No need to apologize ... I'm not necessarily correct ... I'm just a libertarian ;-)
| Occum | LOL. ;-)
| Jonathan | ROTFL!
| ethonics | HOWEVER, with that said in this context ... I am right :-)))
| anat | me too.
| Jonathan | Thank you for clarifying the singular and flexible nature of the GDS
| ethonics | In the end what Roye intended was to create a direct mechanism to access and operate the 'idealize subjective experience'. What I'm interested in is the transpersonal applications and implications. Specifically how can a person organize their experience to be operating from a state of 'bliss', ala Joseph Campbell.
| Jonathan | Ergo your connection to Myth... ;) *ding* lightbulbs are flashing
| ethonics | My workshop is called the Mythogenic Self ... yes. The basis is that there is a mythic representation that a person holds to be true of them ... even if it's beyond their conscious recognition. And this representation organizes the totality of their experience. Any longing they perceive is in relation to the degree with which their thinking and behaviors are not aligned with this. It may be time to get back to basics ... I see you're all still tuned in ... and I've been "talking" too much ... what's on YOUR minds and why are you interested in this model (NLP)???
| sunny | I'm interested in the concept of self and I want to understand it in all aspects of it
| follie | ... so the GDS is how we each see ourself when we're at our best?
| ethonics | follie ... YES, YES, YES!!! or hear, feel, smell and taste as well. Again the way I tend to apply it, is through the body experience as a K++
| Jonathan | (for the newbies -- K = Kinesthetic, is what I'm assuming your reference to be)
| pouch | yes, how do we organize our GDS?
| finter | How can I organize 'my' experience so i can operate 'in' a state of 'bliss' ? - if its not a ignorant question (if so please ignore)
| ethonics | finter ... good question. First how you experience 'bliss' is at the core of the question. You have to 'have' this experience in-time to organize to it. You can do this through an extraordinary self-reflection and awareness ... or you can work with someone skilled enough to elicit a full blown representation who can calibrate the subtlety of it.
| follie | guess you can tell i'm visual :-)
| ethonics | I kinda guessed that was the access here at least. Unless I'm guessing wrong ... you probably also use the other 'stuff' too.
| follie | yes ... secondarily k
| ethonics | For you 'newbies' .... the idea of a 'representation type' is b---s--t!!! People are all these things simultaneously!
| Jonathan | Quick comment here from the sidelines... the SUBTLETY in calibration is what makes this magic. Calibrating posture is the easy part... if I'm not mistaken, Joe...?
| finter | huh?
| Jonathan | LOL Joe, definitely true ;)
| ethonics | They just can't track more than one or two in simultaneaity ... and most NLP Trainers can't either. Calibrating gross posture is both easy and often overlooked. I was once at a training in which RB made some comment that 30 seconds of pacing and rapport is enough and then it's all leading. He so full of it!!! He was pacing this guy to death! He never stopped pacing ... and talk about subtle. It's just at this level pacing and leading are seperated by nanoseconds.
| Occum | Like bodylanguage?
| ethonics | Occum (like the razor co.?) ... yes ... but again far more subtle.
| Occum | Yes. I got the wrong spelling though.
| Jonathan | How about a simple example, Joe, of what you might calibrate simultaneously?
| ethonics | I can not describe the depth of calibration I'm referring to on-line. This is an intime to be experienced kind of thing. E.T. Hall describes this well in his book Beyond Culture when he refers to 'adumbration' ... I prefer it to 'calibration' (a far grosser level of observation and playback). I calibrate it all ... in simultaneaity ... because I let the client take me with them. I'm already in a 'ready' state ... open ... vunerable ... and solid as steel inside.
| finter | can i ask a question joe?
| ethonics | Then they give it all away ... the non-verbal to verbal match and sequencing for example. finter .. yes
| finter | with all your experience of human emotion do u beleive we all have a soul?
| ethonics | Yes ... I do. But what I think and believe this is, may or may not be the same thing as you or anyone else on the planet.
| Occum | Are you able, at this point, to do this pretty much automatically? I find for myself (then again I'm new at this) that I have to think about mirroring and such.
| ethonics | I definitely believe in something Greater Than Self which organize the larger pattern.
| Occum | Pacing and leading with multiple things that is.
| ethonics | Occum ... again yes. It's not a question of doing ... although all skill requires learning and training ... it's much more a question of being ... as I state for me it's about going to and holding the 'ready' position. Pacing is leading, quoteth JSR.
| Jonathan | Is this your GDS state? Or is this a manifestation of the GDS state for the purposes of calibration? or something else entirely?
| ethonics | It is akin to and aligned with it, Jonathan. I like you're phrasing, "a manifestation of the GDS state for purposes of calibration", very good. finter ... did I answer your question ......... was it the answer you wanted???
| pouch | Could you elaborate on the "ready" position Joe?
| finter | Joseph - I was refering to the soul as this "magical energy comprising of our conciousness' ...
| Jonathan | ....while Joe is elaborating... Can I get a headcount? Who's with the flow here? (y/n)
| anat, Occum, follie, finter, pouch | y
| ethonics | to finter ... what I think is that we all tend when we're not fully aware to operate through physi-emotional positions that we think we are as we experience them. I'd suggest we are never, 'angry' or 'joyous' we experience these and other states of being. When we identify with experience we are no longer operating in consciousness.
| anat | so we are not our emotions or our thoughts, but something else, experiencing that.
| finter | I find the language used very difficult to understand :) ..anat - that is very profound
| ethonics | pouch ... the 'ready' state is a physio-emotional state of readiness. For me this is about things like balance, fluidity, solidity, groundedness ... and yet other than to me this is meaningless. These are all nominalizations to you ... and reality to me.
| Occum | So are you saying that certain behaviours flow more readily from certain mythogenic selves (identity maybe?), and other behaviours not so readily?
| Jonathan | Ahhhhh yes...! I find that specific physiological positions for me hold certain emotional responses. If I even shift my body into a certain position or sequences of positions... regardless of what I may be thinking of, I can cycle through or into an unexpected emotional response.
| ethonics | finter ... I agree ... this is absurd language for a simple subject ... but it causes people to take it more seriously sometimes ... and I wouldn't want it to seem as easy as it actually is ... might lose all the mystery you know ...
| finter | ;)
| Occum | LOL.
| ethonics | what want to do finter ... is to move you beyond understanding ... beyond a desire to understand ... to experience one second of something in a way that is unfamiliar to you ... and then to point it out to you ... so that you can hold it and reference it ... so that you have a position of choice available to you.
| follie | lol!
| ethonics | Jonathan 'old man, by George I think you've got it!"
| Jonathan | I enjoy those moments
| follie | ... and i think that's what you did earlier for me??
| ethonics | Or should I have said, 'by Roye???"
| anat | LOL
| Jonathan | By Roye probably applies more ;)
| follie | ... sorta like when all of a sudden the light bulb flashes
| sunny | In a mystical experience we *become* that thing; isn't it contradictory that we are not our thoughts or emotions in transpersonal psychology (sorry this question is a bit late)
| ethonics | If in fact we do this once tonight together ... I'd suggest we've moved to the transconscious position ... we are beginning to access where reality is generated. (How's that for profound language, huh?)_
| follie | ummmm.... transconscious .... is that standing up, sitting down or rofl...
| ethonics | Occum ... I got caught up there for a bit, sorry. Yes, again kinda'. A certain organization of 'being' allows for a class of experience to flow. This flow initiates behaviors which literally create reality. And then the perceptual experience is used to track the match and fit ... internal to external. When we are completely aligned internally and externally to the mythic representation which we believe is most 'us' ... then we could be said to be in that state of bliss referred to earlier.
| Occum | No cognitive dissonance eh?
| ethonics | No cognitive dissonance ... no dissonance at all.
| Jonathan | Traditional NLP language might describe this as a way of increasing your sensory acuity to track your own progress towards an outcome, and keep you on the right path, yes?
| ethonics | That what some NLPers would say. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this is almost at the exterme limits of sensory and perceptual capacity.
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