Chat Log: NLP & Advertising
IRC Chat Pages [ Back to Chat Index Page ]
IRC Chat Log, May 24, 1998
| Jonathan | Well thanks for coming, folks, glad you could join in! Tonight I wanted to cover an area that tends to be glossed over a lot in the newsgroups, etc.. and that has to do with how Advertising affects us all. There's been quite a few books out recently that discuss the impact advertisements have on people, so that's nothing new... Estimates say that Americans see an average of over 3000 ads per day, in one form or another... More if they watch television frequently! These numbers also include the visual sighting of a particular brand's product, like, a car in a television show, etc. And a number of people suggest that these ads are so prevalent, so pervading... that we cannot not be affected by them! Now, its true advertisers are driven by market research into human behavioral responses to these ads... And its also true that we study Human Behavior as NLPers... And that we're especially interested in the process by which people can get into certain states which are useful for something, and then "installing" triggers for those states to be used later on (anchors). And I'm finding that advertisers (in the ads I've been watching lately) are getting increasingly sophisticated with how they're reaching the public. And how they INSTALL behavior in you to buy their products later on! Have any of you noticed this?
| jillcee | no
| Jonathan | I think, Jill that this will become obvious in a moment.
| Occum | Yes. Like the cigarette companies.
| MichaelR | Yes, particularly in political ads... :)
| Occum | Giving away free gear for buying their product.
| Jonathan | Have you noticed in your own behavior -- how... lets say you're in a store... and there are several major name products that you recognize, and somehow or other you just feel more attracted to one than the other? What I'm describing is different than for example buying Coke vs Pepsi! (they should give me $10 apiece for that mention) ;)
| jillcee | Yes it is. I like Blue Bunny ice cream over the other brands
| Jonathan | Sometimes, ads you've seen have caused you to attach emotional responses to their products.. or to the process of buying their products... or even to the moment you find yourself later on... in a situation when you're faced with their products... and you just feel that urge to buy. OK! Example time.
| MichaelR | Example perhaps: Microsoft...where do you want to go tomorrow?
| Jonathan | YES! Good example! OK. I was driving along, recently, in MY neighborhood.
| Occum | Or the beer people?
| Jonathan | And my neighborhood is filled with internet-savvy IT Professionals.
| follie | And some ads are so bad or so obnoxious that I won't buy the product even if it's the only one available
| Jonathan | They make up half the people in my home subdivision ;) True follie, true. So I'm driving along, and there's this billboard. And it shows a picture of "Stouffer's French Bread Pizza." And it says, "Because there's no Snackbar on the Internet."
| Occum | Music, beautifal people having a good time, then WHAMMO!! they flash the product name.
| Jonathan | Yes, Occum!
| jillcee | LOL... I want pizza
| Jonathan | OK -- so the example I described is an AWESOME example of using NLP™-type skills in advertising.
| Occum | In a very targeted way no less.
| Jonathan | Why? Because its targeted to what the people who see the ad experience frequently...
| MichaelR | Nike has done that masterfully...portraying champions...and those feelings that we all want to feel...
| Jonathan | and even more interesting...
| Occum | When Nike has ads for Jordans gear during a Bulls playoff game.
| Jonathan | they're FUTURE-PACING me being on the internet, letting time just slip away... and eventually obviously we'll get hungry. And some of us are going to be thinking about Stouffer's. But not me. Not when I know what they're doing and can stop that process from happening, by collapsing the anchor.
| jillcee | That's a very good point, Jonathan
| Occum | Obey your thirst! Drink Sprite.
| Jonathan | Not unless they pay me $200 for the above mention. ;)
| Occum | LOL.
| Jonathan | Sure, Occum!
| MichaelR | Just do it.
| Jonathan | Michael, Nike has the best people in advertising around, they've always known the value of eliciting emotional responses like champion spirit.
| MichaelR | They have some phenomenal ads that really get the juices pumping...
| Jonathan | Ahhh as they say, Image is everything isn't it?
| Occum | That's why they are so big.
| MichaelR | Especially their "documentary of a champion" type format..
| Jonathan | Now what I think is really powerful, is when they start using Nested Loops in their ads.
| Occum | A story within a story.
| Jonathan | What do I mean by this == does anyone know what I mean by nested loops? Yes Occum, just keep in mind that they don't usually have time to put stories within stories in commercial advertising!
| follie | No - what are they?
| Occum | OK, then how.
| Jonathan | Instead of thinking about stories... think about frames of reference. The idea is... you open 1 frame of reference. And you set the stage. Then you show the audience a new frame and put something in it. Then you close the inner frame, finish & close the outer frame... and you've just installed a sequential reference or process that their minds can go through.
| Occum | Ok.
| Jonathan | So let's use an example. I was in Los Angeles last month!
| Occum | It keeps the mind busy and gives their message time to penetrate.
| Jonathan | And I'm driving down the road (Billboards are great, aren't they?) And I see a Billboard with the GodZilla-style graphic titles. But no real detail.
| follie | You should come to a state where billboards are illegal! :)
| Jonathan | And the ad says, "His Big Toe is this big" or something like that.
| follie | (sorry to get off the subject)
| Jonathan | Then 1/2 mile later another one says... "His Tail goes from here..."
| Occum | Oh yes on the side of buses it said "His foot is bigger than this bus."
| Jonathan | And then 1/2 mile later another one says... "To Here..."
| Occum | "His eye is bigger than this sign"
| Jonathan | And somehow it took until the 4th passing of those signs to realize that there was a sign in the middle, smaller than the others, that said... "See Gozilla" followed by the date of release.
| Occum | Ohhh, wow.
| Jonathan | The suggestion was in the middle of a thought process that was left open. It was incomplete.... we were looking for the completion of the thought process... while they slipped in a different suggestion.
| Occum | I'd like to meet the genius who did that ad campaign.
| MichaelR | And that makes it more difficult for us to consciously filter, letting it slip in the unconscious?
| Jonathan | Next time we see ANY ad for that movie that shows recognizeable graphics... inside, we're hearing "see godzilla" in our own internal voice. Absolutely, Michael. When we're not aware of it... it goes in more smoothly. Assuming we see it at all. Subliminals have been proven to be almost useless, at least when compared to a post-hypnotic suggestion. The latter is MUCh more effective. And MOST of the Milton Model in NLP™ is designed to induce distraction or confusion, such that any suggestions that are made, are less filtered on the way in.
| Occum | So we're not talking so much about the words but the structure.
| Jonathan | Absolutely!
| Occum | I need to start thinking more globally.
| Jonathan | When they start nesting loops in advertising... I had to laugh... someone VERY skilled in human psychology and hypnosis is working for these people. And the stuff works!
| MichaelR | why limit yourself, what about universally? ;)
| Occum | Well, I meant something a little differant than that.
| Jonathan | So again, when I say loops, in this case I'm talking about frames of reference. The mind learns best not by static images, but by sequential shifts.
| Occum | I guess fast comparison of differences.
| Jonathan | So if you start with something that is representative of a "universal" experience... and then shift into something else... that something else becomes a likely transition for your audience to be able to make later on when the audience member finds themselves in a frame or situation which is metaphorically similar, or literally similar, to the outer frame in the advertisement. Our responses have been programmed for YEARS by advertisers all around us. Now, we DO have freedom of choice... but the more sophisticated it gets... the more sophisticated WE have to be to filter it out and BE AWARE of these processes being used around us all the time! These are the kinds of patterns I pay attention to... because I want to have my freedom of choice BACK -- I want it back from the advertisers, and and back from political strategists, etc. ...
| Occum | Y'know Kenrick Cleveland said that the only way to resist language patterns is to either have a preset out come against what is being thrown at you or to really be aware of them.
| Jonathan | Yes, Kenrick is right about that. The FORMER, is where the advertisers have very little capability to change your mind (just thru ads, anyway). So to focus their energy on avoiding the LATTER defense mechanism... they make their techniques increasingly sophisticated. But I'll tell you, some of the BEST ads I've seen lately... are simply ones that MAKE YOU LAUGH!
| Occum | It's like showing a magic trick to primitive peoples... Eventually they get the trick...
| Jonathan | Humor is the best educator around because it does the same thing that hypnosis does.
| Occum | So to impress you have to come up with increasingly sofisticated tricks.
| Jonathan | It breaks down all the defenses... and gets your physiology into a more open, flexible state that happens to be in motion! Think about the last time you laughed your butt off! Your body ROCKED with the fun of it all!
| follie | And if you laugh, you automatically associate a good feeling with the product
| Jonathan | Anything suggested to you at THAT time was being INSTALLED in your body... in your mind... because you were ENJOYING it! Yes, follie ... think about this one: Little Caeser's Pizza!
| Occum | Yeah, I still remeber stuff from commercials in the '80s. Right there you go!!
| MichaelR | Pizza Pizza :)
| Jonathan | One of the funniest Ad Campaigns around -- & it skyrocketed their pizza! P! P!
| Occum | Making people laugh makes takes them off guard.
| Jonathan | "My Long Lost Brother!" "I found My Wallet!" "I Will Marry You!" "I've lost 10 pounds!" Pizza Pizza. "I don't need my glasses anymore!"
| follie | And similarly, as I said earlier, if the ad is dumb, or insulting, then I tend to feel that the product is too
| |