Chat Log: NLP Interventions
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IRC Chat Log, December 21, 1997
| Jonathan | NLP Interventions! OK. What do we use them for, and how do we define the terminology? When you use your intuition, with someone, towards a certain end... Is it an intervention? (NLP or otherwise)? Y/N/? are good quickie group answers.
| Shaidan | root word is to intervene,....
| Jonathan | yes. To step in and do something.
| grounded | no
| Shaidan | intuition or scheduled procedure could both be intervention
| Jonathan | I'd say Yes & No to all of your answers. It could be. It always depends on what your outcome is, doesn't it?
| grounded | well, stepping in and doing something doesn't always intervene
| Jonathan | Ahhh Grounded is right... thats a sophisticated answer, though, would you like to clarify your point?
| grounded | I see it as if it stops what is happening and causes something different, then its an intervention
| Jonathan | Do you presuppose in an intervention that it was successful?
| grounded | it helps
| Jonathan | To me. An intervention is an attempt to change/stop/start something. It isn't always successful. Though IN THE MOMENT, I do/would start from that same pre-sup!
| Shaidan | i can agree with that
| Jonathan | But academically, I might say it may or may not work. Kewl. So. Since we have a varied audience here in terms of NLP skill, I might suggest that we aim our discussion of NLP interventions towards examples of what people can do with their friends and families in real-world ways to improve communication amongst people that are important to them/us!
| Shaidan | this'll be fun,...
| grounded | ok
| Jonathan | Hi Kay! ok cool. Alrighty then!
| kayp | Hi, Jonathan, Hi everybody else Moooo
| Jonathan | We've defined intervention... as something we might do to step in and make a difference towards a certain outcome.
| Shaidan | How many people anchor profound states of pleasure in their co-workers
| Jonathan | I like to, but I don't have co-workers anymore. Now everyone I meet is a co-player! ;) OK, Moving along then ;)
| Shaidan | I treat pretty serious drug addictions every couple of monthes or so,..
| Shaidan | last one was a heroin user 19
| Jonathan | If we tack on NLP in front of interventions, then it means using the tools which have arisen through NLP towards a better solution with someone. Does it mean we need to explicitly use NLP with the clients/family/friend?
| grounded | I had an easy-going silly drug addiction once
| Jonathan | Is using NLP on ourselves to adjust our own beliefs and emotional states before using our intuition enough to call it an NLP intervention? ;) I would say probably not, personally.
| Shaidan | yes i say it would
| grounded | hmmmnn, not really
| Jonathan | For me to call what I'm doing an NLP intervention, I'd want to be explicitly drawing from my NLP toolset with the client/subject.
| grounded | only if you did the changes on yourself to get an intervention elsewhere
| Jonathan | (its ok every opinion is right folks -- lets keep that in mind)
| Shaidan | you intervened inside your own loop of behavior and altered the entire communication system
| grounded | thats what I said
| Jonathan | Yes -- with that caveat I'd say I agree with Shaidan as well.
| Shaidan | that would be intervention wouldn't it?
| Jonathan | ;) -- I think so. Well...
| Shaidan | I think the real topic is when and where do you place said intervention, at what time
| Jonathan | If you were already in that communication system when you used the NLP intervention on yourself, which changed the situation, then yes. Agreed!
| grounded | ok
| Jonathan | If you use NLP on yourself before entering the communication process, then just use intuition, then probably not applying NLP with the client directly. Alrighty. Lets move on -- if thats OK... Lets say someone presents you with a problem they'd like to solve...
| grounded | k
| Jonathan | and they don't ask for help.
| Shaidan | k
| PhilAlex | Sure.
| Jonathan | Do you help covertly? Or do you wait to be asked?
| Shaidan | I do almost everything covertly
| Jonathan | ;) loaded questions
| grounded | good question
| Shaidan | if I start looping and they don't walk away I have permission
| grounded | sometimes people ask you out of conciousness. what do you mean shaidan?
| Jonathan | Thats very invasive, Shaidan. I might agree with you ;) Sometimes...
| Shaidan | sorry sentence fragment,..won't happen again
| Cloud_ | quite often when you come to you, in their mind, they ARE asking you for help to solve said problem.
| Jonathan | If you'll permit me a cringing reference to John Grey, sometimes when they come to you, they just want an ear, and they don't want it solved. Women especially are content with some of their problems, as long as other people accept that they're problems that are OK to bear. Sometimes thats the best intervention I can do is to just shut up and listen. ;) Because the moment I challenge and covertly help to reframe/eliminate, is the moment they could interpret that I think they're broken. And that they need fixing. Now I don't want to stress that, because I do a lot of intervening. I'm just trying to provide a balance point for the conversation... ;) I've raised a lot -- now I'll back off and let the ideas fly for a bit ;) Are there any ideas to fly? ;)
| Shaidan | agreed Cloud! and there is education! as opposed to therapy
| Cloud_ | but isn't education a form of therapy?
| Shaidan | does everyone understand what I mean by that?
| Cloud_ | in many cases, i'd say yes..
| Shaidan | yes,....I prefer to educate,...better results, plus you need less permission to educate
| grounded | I dont understand
| PhilAlex | Can be a good idea...
| Cloud_ | better future results.....Personaly, I like to do both..
| Jonathan | OK
| grounded | so how do you know if you should help, other than what you just said? and what do you mean by looping, shaidan
| Jonathan | Basically a single question can be asked. The question being... "Listen, I'm not sure if I can help, but if I could, would you want me to?"
| Shaidan | opening loops,...
| Jonathan | Opening loops within loops within loops.
| grounded | not familiar with that
| Jonathan | Each story is a metaphor for a certain state., By delivering metaphors within metaphors, its like providing software for the mind... and you can test how well each metaphor fits... as you deliver them...
| Shaidan | see Jon then some of them start to play, "my psychosis is smarter than you"
| grounded | if they stay to see and end to the looping? then they want help?
| Jonathan | Yes, if they ask you to provide assistance or help, its an explicit acknowledgement, you have license to help. As a friend, you might have more flexibility to assist a little more covertly.
| grounded | do people respond "yes" unconciously?
| Jonathan | In a professional arrangement, I wait for a request to help before I admit to doing anything.
| Shaidan | Always grounded, always. If you're in the therapy biz that's a very good idea
| Jonathan | Yes, I'd agree, though its often incongruent, even unconsciously, with the desire for the status quo. Now I may DO something first, but usually its along the lines of making models in my head of their representations, etc. Or, setting some anchors for future use. But the cohesive change work waits for the go-ahead in my case.
| grounded | hmmnnn so if they reject your looping, they don't want help? if they don't stay for the end of the story?
| Jonathan | Thats a good question... [let's ask] Shaidan? The thing is, any story you tell may get them to react negatively due to some anchor in their past that you're not aware of. So they may walk away for an unintended reason! lol. I'd want to innoculate against it, before going forward.
| Shaidan | what? groundeds q? Grounded,...let me put it to you like this: when I communicate with someone I induce a state of playful honesty
| Jonathan | Thats useful!
| Shaidan | (or some other useful state)
| grounded | get a possitive anchor?
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