Chat Log: NLP Products
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IRC Chat Log, June 7, 1998
| Jonathan | Alrighty folks... thanks for joining in!
| anakin | ok
| Jonathan | Are we ready to start? (y/n)
| anakin, Roy_Kirk, msjill, Occum | y
| Jonathan | It alllll started years ago... but for me it started more recently than that... because I was first exposed to NLP (UNknowingly) by watching Tony Robbins infomercials. And I thought to myself... "they're DOING something with me... and I'm not sure what... but its VERY influential..." And when I first actually heard of NLP, and found that it involved learning language patterns for persuasion, etc., I thought... maybe this has something to do with those infomercials I was seeing.... so when I first decided to learn NLP it was because I wanted to ARM myself against the growing use of these same patterns in advertising all around us. For info on NLP and advertising, there's another chat up on the website. But really, I started out learning NLP BECAUSE I wanted to prevent the use of the patterns on my, without my knowledge. I had no idea there was so much more to explore and learn in NLP about improving my life, improving the lives of people around me... being more influential in sales etc.... and I had no idea that there was so much more to explore. Rapport... for example. Charisma.... ohhhh... CHARISMA.... in a big way! Health... congruency in goals... clearing away uncertainty and confusion... wow.
| anakin | How do rapport and charisma differ? IMHO they seem the same.
| Jonathan | Charisma, in my opinion, is about the natural magnetic energy you give off to people.... rapport is something you share to some degree... with 1 or more other people. You can be charismatic... without anyone else around. ;)
| anakin | high energy?
| Jonathan | But to be in rapport... aside from being in rapport with yourself ;) you have to be in rapport with someone or something else. It can be high energy, yes. (let me continue!)
| anakin | ok
| Jonathan | Now. So there are ALL these different area of life that NLP can help us with... and the question is... with all of these areas to explore... how do we begin to choose in what direction to explore NLP skills? There are those here who want to do healing work. There are those here who want to boost their sales. Other areas of NLP exploration include... as was mentioned... spirituality, congruency, normal conversations with just about anyone.... politics, law, etc etc etc AD INFINITUM! This goes on & on & on....
| Jonathan | Yes, Occum, because we can never learn it ALLLLL....
| Roy_Kirk | I'm jumping out of my chair yelling, "YES! YES! I WANT IT ALL!"
| Roy_Kirk | doh!
| Jonathan | But even though we'll never get through it ALLLLl, and that includes trainers, by the way ;) we can ALWAYS pursue more of what we want. and you can learn general things about all of the above by taking a practitioner course. But some people don't have the time or money to spare. Personally I think the people that really want a lot of the above can't afford to not spare the time & money. But thats a separate issue! What about PRODUCTS? What kinds of things are available for us to buy, etc., in order to help us learn more NLP? Because even if you do go to a training, typically you'll want to have some books to read... some tapes to listen to... some videos to watch... etc. Now. There are a LOT of trainers out there -- Who have created some great tapes & such... and Master Practitioners who have USED NLP to create packaged methodologies... modeled from experts (Think of the Mega-Memory course.)
| msjill | is it economical to go to a trainer?
| Jonathan | Jill, based on what most people get from a great trainer, yes, I think so. But a select few people go back to their normal everyday patterns and don't use what they learn. So. It's caveat emptor - buyer beware, and, you have to take responsibility for your own learning too. Yes, it is economical to go to a trainer. Nothing else is as experiential. And it is the fastest way to experientially learn the skills. Before I continue.... lets open up a debate or discussion (brief) on the kinds of products you all already may have purchased... and when you do... give a BRIEF description of the content and your review of the products. Give product/tape name, author/trainer's name, quick description of content, & your evaluation of quality!
| Occum | Well so far all I have are Tony Robbins books: "Awaken the Giant Within", and "Unlimited Power." While I think their not a bad overview and primer I've heard that there is a lot better, and more specific stuff out there.
| Jonathan | Bandler's "NeuroSonics" Personal Enhancement Series is available on 6 Cassettes for $130, or 6 CD's for $160.
| Roy_Kirk | I have bought and read many books, but esp. if you are reading it in a book, you need someone to practise on, which I find hard to find...example: I don't know many people who ask me to cure their phobias...I also don't know anyone that would be comfortable while I try to hypnotize them (Transformations)
| Jonathan | Very true Roy. Thats why NLP study groups in your area can be REALLY helpful, if you can set them up!
| anakin | Kenrick Cleveland Maximum Persuasion has impressed me. It focuses on the business aspects of NLP. Covering the basics of rapport, criteria elixitation, embedded commands and some basic logic techniques.
| Roy_Kirk | not a bad idea!
| Jonathan | Others?
| Roy_Kirk | Yeah, thats the ticket! Thanks Jon!
| Roy_Kirk | May I ask a question about the Bandler recordings?
| Jonathan | Occum -- Yes, Tony's books are great primers, no doubt about it. Sure, Roy!
| msjill | Everyone knows of Bandler, does he offer stuff in this field?
| Jonathan | Bandler & La Valle's Persuasion Engineering tapes are EXCELLENT.
| anakin | I read the Persuasion Engineering book but it didn't give enough exercises.
| Jonathan | Jill - Bandler is one of NLP's co-founders.
| anakin | For me at least.
| Roy_Kirk | I plan on getting PE, but I was wondering, you hear rumors about Bandler teaching everything indirectly, speaking just to the subconcious mind...is that true? And does he use that technique in his tapes?
| Wild1 | Get the tapes they will teach you more about language that you will ever believe
| Jonathan | Yes, Roy, absolutely. He just tells stories that seem to oooze together ;)
| Occum | Jill, Bandler is on of the founders of NLP™, and he continues to be one of the innovaters.
| Roy_Kirk | That amazes me.
| Wild1 | Each time I listen to the Persuasion Engineering tapes I learn someting new
| Jonathan | Anakin -- the book didn't give enough exercises ;) that may be true... the Persuasion Engineering tapes go into a LOT more detail and tell a lot more stories!
| Occum | Well Anakin, I havent bought his course yet, but what I've grabbed off the web has been phenomenal.
| anakin | True
| Roy_Kirk | Anakin: I haven't heard it either, but I know many people who swear by Kenrick. I was in a conference call with him, also. Twas damn good and educational.
| Occum | I would like to get some of Dilts stuff.
| Jonathan | Well, word has it that his material is strong in the persuasion area. But I don't know his material. Surrounding the topic of Kenrick I have often heard veiled comments about a checkered past. As of today, I've met him online just once, and he seemed eager to be up-front and to rebuild his reputation. If anyone has questions about him, I think if they're going to direct those questions to other people, then they should also ask him directly, rather than only spreading rumors. And as you say, Anakin, you really enjoy his work and there are others who have said the same thing. Apart from those comments (hopefully balanced), I know very little about his work.
| anakin | But it seemed to be presented in a very straight forward manner. You really begin to become aware of how naturally you can persuade now.;)
| Occum | Strategies of genius, and Sleight of mouth.
| Wild1 | I saw Dilts in Jan.
| Jonathan | ok ok anakin -- what you may not know -- is that Milton Model patterns don't go over very well in chatrooms ;) except for having fun.
| Wild1 | I can tell you that he is so smooth
| anakin | hahaha
| Jonathan | I haven't seen him in person but I have a lot of Dilts videos and he IS smooth.
| Wild1 | You would never guess he is using loops at all
| Jonathan | His intent is usually more obvious, as well.
| Jonathan | His direction is pretty clear.
| anakin | dilt's web site is pretty cool.
| Occum | What about NLP stuff focusing on Education, Teaching, and Learning, whats good out there?
| Jonathan | GOOD question. The book Dynamic Learning is quite good. Dilts & Epstein.
| Roy_Kirk | Yes. I know a couple school teachers and I would love to point them in the direction of NLP to help them.
| Jonathan | And there's a lot of alternative education stuff out there on body kinesthetics.... ideal learning strategies, while most of the NLPers studying that seem to be exploring these alternative ideas put forth by others.
| Occum | I'm into Win Wengers stuff, he's not NLP but some of the parallels between his methods and some NLP stuff out there on Education is spooky.
| anakin | Win stuff is great.
| Jonathan | There is NOT a lot of information, for example, on using Nested Loops in a traditional educational environment. There's a niche subject market, in case anyone wants to write about it.... Yes, Occum , I'd agree.
| Occum | Or even just NLP strategies in general.
| Jonathan | Alright. Let's focus a little here! OK..... As in... For Specifically TAPES. There are tapes for introducing (for everyone)... NLP.... And there are advanced tapes. And there are intermediate tapes. Let's start with some INTRODUCTION type material on cassette!
| Occum | Now I wanna know about this. 8-)
| Jonathan | I found Instant Rapport (Michael Brooks) on cassette to be a good FIRST introduction to using some NLP tools. The book provides a lot more, but that one's a good intro. So what tapes did you first listen to you that gave you a real feel for what you were learning? (never mind the VAKOG presups there ;) No one can remember the first introductory tapes they listened to? What about NLP Comp's "Success Mastery with NLP"
| Roy_Kirk | I'm still saving up to buy my 1st tape set.
| Occum | Well I've never listened to any yet.
| Wild1 | Mine where the N-sonics
| Jonathan | There's a 6-tape set.... from Robert MacDonald and Charles Faulkner....
| Wild1 | Turned me inside out
| Jonathan | which is really quite good... and they took 2 of those tape sides and made a single tape that you can get in any Borders or Barnes & Noble.
| Occum | Though I thought about getting the DHE tapes, but then their not really intorductory.
| anakin | I bought a NLP™ course from Nightingale Covent and did't really like it.
| Jonathan | I know because I bought the single tape from -- yes -- Nightingale Conant --
| anakin | I didn't understand it.
| Wild1 | DHE is ONLY for the advanced student. They would go over a beginners head
| Jonathan | and then found out there were other tapes as part of the same series
| Occum | No I'm aware of that.
| Jonathan | I'd agree, Wild1. OK. So lets move into intermediate level tapes or tape-series. And this can include Practitioner tapes.
| Roy_Kirk | wait, Jon, I have a question
| Jonathan | Yes Roy?
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