Chat Log: NLP & State Changes
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IRC Chat Log, March 5, 1998
| Jonathan | Hi folks! Nice of you to join me here in the channel for another chat... this one should be a ton of fun! I wanted to talk a bit about what it means to have NLP skills for state changing... and be able to apply them both internally with yourselves, and with other people! I mean, now, it seems to me that when I was first getting into NLP that one of the primary reasons was to be able to have more self-control in situations that in my past, would have really upset or annoyed me. And, to be able to recognize in GREAT situations, that I was in less than a GREAT state, so as to change my state and maximize the positive benefits of my present circumstances! But once you start to use the NLP techniques that are out there, both in books and online, as well as taught by trainers, etc... The first thing that usually happens is, you learn how to do it with your own behavior.... and then you start running out of things you want to consciously address yourself!!! So you open up your eyes and ears and you start looking around and listening more to whats happening all around you.... and what do you find??? LOTS of people with lots of difficulty changing their OWN states! So then its like you reach a threshold where you discover that not only can you adjust your own state, but you begin the process of learning all the ways in which you can influence other people's states. Now I remember when I started doing this... I thought COOL, I can influence other people's states... and then it hit me like a ton of bricks... I'd been doing it all along... a LOT less effectively and intentionally than I'd have liked.
| SunDog | And in fact, at first you're even less effective because you're using NLP™ (inelegantly), or at least, I was.
| Jonathan | Now I could have stared at what was wrong indefinitely and gotten annoyed about it... (well OK I admit I did for a little while, but not long) but instead within a short time I was already looking to begin to change my own behavior and gain mastery over how I was adjusting other people's states! Yes SunDog!
| SunDog | So you go back to: Start with what you know and use NLP&153; to amplify it, not replace it!
| metaclone | Good point.
| Jonathan | OOoooooh, good description, SunDog! So this is about one thing! Will everyone here recognize that they have the power to control their own state!? If you're not sure, and don't have ample evidence... lets jump back a little bit. Every state you've EVER been in is now a memorized, learned state! Your body knows how to go back into that state, but, it may just not yet have conscious triggers, or anchors (as NLPers say), to access that state.
| grazzhppr, SunDog, mikw | yes
| Jonathan | To new NLP™ students, this is something anyone at any level can do! One of the typical ways NLPers go back into learned/memorized states is if they KNOW an anchor... they just fire it. But thats not most people. One of the typical ways NLPers go back into states they don't have anchors for... and the technique is the same whether you know NLP or not... is the classic "remember a time when you [did / felt / saw ] X " where X was a situation in which they were in a certain state. Like, "Remember a time when you felt reallllly happy! And in any order in which the memory comes back, see what you saw then, hear what you heard then, and feel what you felt then!" Now. Go ahead! Remember a time when you felt SO happy, your whole spine lit up with the electricity and pleasure of it all!
| Jonathan | What you think, this is a lecture? I don't have all night... ya know!!! Pick a really happy memory!
| SunDog | Oh. Yes!!
| metaclone | Mostly, you just need a belief!
| Jonathan | Meta -- why not expand upon that! While we're all remembering our hap hap happy times ;) And while Meta is describing... everyone else... if you see pictures... MAKE 'em BIGGER!
| mikw | ummmmmmm... ahhhhhh.. *feel good*
| metaclone | Often the belief in itself that you can change state -- is enough to blow the doors open and
| SunDog | (and put some music to it)
| Jonathan | Yeah, yeah... MUSIC!
| metaclone | yeah take that belief, move it out and watch it expand in size, now zooom it close
| Jonathan | Make those happy pictures brighter and see if the happy feelings don't just DOUBLE those feelings!
| SunDog | Good point Metaclone! Also, you can stomp the state with this idea that you never had a happy time.
| metaclone | but ummm yeah the belief u can change states is often enuf, and to mismatch this... sometimes i cant change state - to the one i want - no matter what
| Jonathan | metaclone -- I'll go along with that in a big way... but to GET the belief with new folks who don't have that belief, I can either set up a distance-based swish, or, use Sleight of Mouth, or... I can simply lead through the above examples.
| SunDog | with mismatcher, i use "How do you know you aren't having it now? What's missing?" and work up piecewise
| Jonathan | Sure, SunDog... thats a really good example!
| metaclone | sure but then i'd look at other models like MBTI, eneagram etc which explain energy levels
| Jonathan | Ooooh glad you're here metaclone -- we get some other interesting viewpoints to cover!
| SunDog | ? does mbti explain energy levels
| metaclone | i think so - who knows the model ?
| SunDog | not me, obviously
| Jonathan | We've just opened up the frame of believing people can change states just by remembering previous times where we KNEW we were in that state before; I do -- but I'll let you lead that one!
| SunDog | or must have been
| metaclone | we can get back to it later... it'll loop around
| SunDog | cached
| Jonathan | OK!
| Sandworm | Well, states change all the time, anyway. The notion that there is some kind of steady, stable "SELF" is pretty silly.
| metaclone | ummm yeah you can remember a time, act as if, shift physiology but at the end of the day we're talking recoding submodalities.
| Jonathan | All day long, true...
| metaclone | submodalities - ie pcitures, feeling, sounds
| grazzhppr | thx
| Sandworm | I daresay from an Eastern perspective, the challenge is to MAINTAIN a state for more than 5 seconds without distractions shifting it into something else...
| SunDog | Exactly, the state is what's NOT changing, and that changes
| Jonathan | Its silly to people versed in the process. You know as well as I how stuck people can be when they show up at your/my seminars! They haven't recognized a state-change in the last 5 years sometimes.
| metaclone | so then i got this is about giving them a belief
| Jonathan | Meanwhile we can see the shifts readily (even though the physiology may not change much).
| Sandworm | I think Jon just put his finger on it...RECOGNIZING and monitoring your states is a new skill to lots of people....
| SunDog | And recognizing that they have a choice is NOT obvious
| Sandworm | This is something Bandler said at the Meta-Master: you have to be able to notice something before you can control or change it.
| Jonathan | Agreed -- and that does follow up comments you made some time ago -- along similar lines. So let me recap here and regroup everyone.
| metaclone | so its like get conscious
| Dan_26 | kind of like wine tasting; it's all wine in one sense, but there are thousand of nuances that make each taste unique
| Sandworm | You're also banging against an entire culture that says control isn't possible or desirable... ...I will now shut up.
| Jonathan | We started in with talking about the purpose of knowing how to change states in yourself, because you go first! Once you know you can change your own state you can begin to recognize that you've been adjusting other people's states already, though perhaps in less than effective ways thus far.
| SunDog | Intentionally or not
| Jonathan | And then you can get a handle on that too and begin to turn it around so that you can adjust other people's states more positively! Intentionally!
| SunDog | Now that you realize it.
| metaclone | You mean I do hypnois and don't know it?
| Jonathan | Or not adjust them at all - because you'll know how to NOT influence people more effectively! Of course, Metaclone, under the assumption that EVERYTHING is hypnosis (perhaps very ineffective hypnosis). "People are hypnosis machines."
| SunDog | I haven't figured out how to interact without influencing!
| Jonathan | If you walk up to someone, keep your mouth closed, but Smile really widely. If they smile back, that's a hypnotic reaction. Isn't it? So as to interaction without influence, have you ever been SO neutral, so completely bland, that you just blended in and disappeared completely even in a public place? I know kids who know how to do that. Can you do that?
| SunDog | I can disappear, yes.
| metaclone | Invisibility.
| Jonathan | And you can still interact when you do that, right?
| SunDog | Ummm, interact & remain invisible - how so please?
| metaclone | Ummm OK, so what if I know these tricks, have a belief and just can't shift into the state I want?
| Jonathan | *I* did that from time to time unintentionally before I started studying NLP™! I was missing a big kinesthetic piece of the puzzle! Metaclone -- for the group -- are you new to NLP?
| Dan_26 | I'm curious jonathan, how did you discover that kino piece
| Sandworm | Jon..can I jump in here a sec and ask Meta a question?
| Jonathan | Sure! BTW I thinks this is a GREAT chat topic & a great group!
| Sandworm | Meta...my thought is this: if you "want" a state it means that you have a representation at SOME level, however detailed or vague, of what that state would be like to have, correct?
| SunDog | so... in order to remain invisible, i must not interact (i think). if i interact, i might THINK i'm invisible
| Sandworm | Anyway, my question is: is it that he can't reach the state, or is it that he just hasn't formed an adequate enough representation of what the state would be like such that he has something vivid enough to aim at? In other words...the skill deficit may NOT be in shifting into the state....but in sufficiently designing it in the first place....
| SunDog | The latter, back to "How do you know you don't have it yet? What's missing? What needs to be removed?"
| Sandworm | The shifting might be EASY provided he has an adequate and vivid enough representation....
| Jonathan | Probably more along the lines of what you describe, Ross...
| DocSpiff | umm there is an important point here
| Sandworm | In fact....just vividly designing it/representing it may cause him to enter it!
| metaclone | sorry lemme see
| Dan_26 | what if you have the state well represented but something prevents you from accessing it at desired times? (respond when appropriate)
| Jonathan | missing the anchor into a powerful SET of sensory info strong enuf to bring back intense kinesthetics that he can lock in
| Sandworm | Point being...watch how folks describe the problem..they aren't always or even usually accurate or correct and you might wind up chasing shadows/.
| Jonathan | Dan --
| DocSpiff | in order to notice hes not reaching a particular state, he has to enter that state, even if for the briefest of moments
| metaclone | ross: id call it hte human condition, and look at things like MBTI inferior fuction
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